so, the terrorists win...

[Irvine511]

Originally Posted by INDY500

Do you know what the goal, for which terror is just one tactic, actually is?

to draw the United States into unwinnable, costly wars in the Middle East and to cause the country to go bankrupt like the Soviet Union.

[Strongbow]

Originally Posted by Irvine511

to draw the United States into unwinnable, costly wars in the Middle East and to cause the country to go bankrupt like the Soviet Union.

So you believe like some in Al Quada and South Asia do, that the war in Afghanistan caused the Soviet Union to go bankrupt?

[maycocksean]

Originally Posted by BVS

Now you have the pulse of the American people?

Perhaps they also have biweekly meetings like the African American Community?

Funny though, that I've never been invited. . . .

Does that make me unAmerican?

Originally Posted by INDY500

So attacks on the U.S. will slow or even stop once the "breeding ground" of Guantanamo is closed?

Well, another talking point of the Left that has absolutely no basis in reality.

I won't argue with you on this one. I think closing Gitmo is neither here nor there. To me closing it is just a political gesture, and one that is creating a lot of headaches.

Theoretically they could house the prisoners anywhere so why not just keep them where they are?

[INDY500]

Originally Posted by maycocksean

I won't argue with you on this one. I think closing Gitmo is neither here nor there. To me closing it is just a political gesture, and one that is creating a lot of headaches.

Theoretically they could house the prisoners anywhere so why not just keep them where they are?

It's never been explained why Gitmo North would be perceived by the world as better than Gitmo Classic. Just one of those political memes that gets repeated so often some people are bound to accept it.
Unfortunately, the president is one of those people.

[deep]

Originally Posted by INDY500

It's never been explained why Gitmo North would be perceived by the world as better than Gitmo Classic. Just one of those political memes that gets repeated so often some people are bound to accept it.
Unfortunately, the president is one of those people.

Because the whole premise of GITMO from the onset was that it is a magic island like LOST.

People can be held indefinitely without being charged and no international laws or conventions apply there. This is what the Bush Administration claimed.

[MrsSpringsteen]

Remember when Cheney said if people voted for Kerry there would be a greater chance of terrorist attacks, etc.? I guess they're just getting an early start on Obama.

[MrsSpringsteen]

wired.com

Obama: Software Flaws Let Christmas Bomber Get Through

* By Noah Shachtman
* January 7, 2010



Crappy government software — and failure to use that software right — almost got 289 people killed in the botched Christmas day bombing.

“Information sharing does not appear to have contributed to this intelligence failure; relevant all-sources analysts as well as watchlisting personnel who needed this information were not preventing from accessing it,” the White House noted in its review of the incident. The problem was in the databases, and in the data-mining software. “Information technology within the CT [counterterrorism] community did not sufficiently enable the correlation of data that would have enable analysts to highlight the relevant threat information.”

You bet it didn’t. Government search tools weren’t even flexible enough to handle simple misspellings. As the White House review notes:

A misspelling of Mr. Abdulmutallab’s name initially resulted in the State Department believing he did not have a valid U.S. visa. A determination to revoke his visa however would have only occurred if there had been a successful integration of intelligence by the CT [counterterrorism] community, resulting in his being watchlisted.

This is a problem that commercial software firms largely solved years ago. (Try typing “Noa Schactmann” into Google, and see what comes up.) How it could persist in the CT community, I just don’t understand.

In a memo to his agency chiefs, President Obama ordered the Director of National Intelligence to “accelerate information technology enhancement, to include knowledge discovery, database integration, cross-database search, and the ability to correlate biographic information with terrorism-related intelligence.”

All of which will be helpful. But analysts have to actually use the tools. That didn’t happen in the Christmas attack. “NCTC and CIA personnel who are responsible for watchlisting did not search all available databases,” the White House noted.

The Department of Homeland Security did run Northwest Airlines flight 253’s passenger manifest against terrorism databases. But only after the flight took off. Ugh.

[INDY500]

Coming soon to our health care system.

"Crappy government software" and a flood of bureaucrats that "fail to use that software right."

Yeah.

[ntalwar]

Originally Posted by MrsSpringsteen

This is a problem that commercial software firms largely solved years ago. (Try typing “Noa Schactmann” into Google, and see what comes up.) How it could persist in the CT community, I just don’t understand.

This is a poor example used by the author to conclude that the software is crappy. Western European name misspellings are easier to identify in software. I don't think google would fare as well with more exotic languages and regional dialects.

[BVS]

Originally Posted by INDY500

Coming soon to our health care system.

"Crappy government software" and a flood of bureaucrats that "fail to use that software right."

Yeah.

Is this how you feel about the military and NASA as well?

[INDY500]

As the Ft Hood thread is closed I thought I'd post this here in hopes someone can explain what is going on.

The Fort Hood Report: Why No Mention of Islam?
Time magazine jan 20th

The U.S. military's just-released report into the Fort Hood shootings spends 86 pages detailing various slipups by Army officers but not once mentions Major Nidal Hasan by name or even discusses whether the killings may have had anything to do with the suspect's view of his Muslim faith. And as Congress opens two days of hearings on Wednesday into the Pentagon probe of the Nov. 5 attack that left 13 dead, lawmakers want explanations for that omission.

John Lehman, a member of the 9/11 commission and Navy Secretary during the Reagan Administration, says a reluctance to cause offense by citing Hasan's view of his Muslim faith and the U.S. military's activities in Muslim countries as a possible trigger for his alleged rampage reflects a problem that has gotten worse in the 40 years that Lehman has spent in and around the U.S. military. The Pentagon report's silence on Islamic extremism "shows you how deeply entrenched the values of political correctness have become," he told TIME on Tuesday. "It's definitely getting worse, and is now so ingrained that people no longer smirk when it happens."

(full story)
Fort Hood Report: No Mention of Islam, Hasan Not Named - TIME

[coolian2]

Originally Posted by INDY500

"shows you how deeply entrenched the values of political correctness have become,"

yeah, we're positive that's what it is.

[MrsSpringsteen]

Huffington Post

Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich appeared on the Daily Show with Jon Stewart, leveling harsh criticism against the Obama administration.

After Gingrich assailed the administration for reading Miranda Rights to Detroit undie bomber Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, Stewart drew a comparison to something that happened under George W. Bush.

"Didn't they do the same with Richard Reid, who was the shoe bomber?" he asked the Republican icon.

"Richard Reid was an American citizen," insisted Gingrich.

Reid is actually a British citizen of Jamaican descent.

Stewart started to raise the Miranda Rights issue again, but Gingrich pushed the conversation along.

Later, when Gingrich acknowledged that part of his job is to reach out to the emotions of the American people, Stewart shot back, "I think that's wise. And don't let reality get in the way."

At the end of the show, Stewart realized that Gingrich had falsely claimed the shoe bomber was an American citizen and noted that to his audience.

politico.com Feb 2

Republicans may have a hard time keeping up their talking point about how reading Miranda rights to the Christmas Day bomber represented a dangerous new direction under President Barack Obama.

It turns out that that back in December 2001, Richard Reid — the “shoe bomber” — was read or reminded of his Miranda rights four times in two days, beginning five minutes after being taken into custody.

Furthermore, the Bush administration specifically rejected the idea of a military tribunal — another step that Republicans have argued should have been taken in the case of Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, who tried to bring down Northwest Flight 253 over Detroit on Christmas Day and was read his rights after 50 minutes of FBI questioning.

After Reid attempted to blow up an American Airlines flight out of Paris, Massachusetts State Police officers boarded the plane at 12:55 p.m. on Dec. 22, 2001, handcuffed Reid and removed him from the plane, according to U.S. District Court records.

“At around 1:00 p.m., one of the officers (it is unclear who) read Reid Miranda warnings,” according to a court order in Reid’s case. “The officers then placed Reid inside a police cruiser. … At some point while in the cruiser, Trooper Santiago … asked Reid ‘What happened on the plane?,’ which Reid answered by stating that nothing happened on the plane. … Reid then asked Trooper Santiago, ‘Where are the reporters?’”

“At 2:15 p.m., he was again read his Miranda warnings,” the chronology continues. “Before any interrogation of Reid commenced, he rested in his cell and was given water. … Federal investigators began interrogating Reid at around 5:07 p.m. … At that time, the agents again informed Reid of his Miranda protections, which he said he understood. …

“The following day, December 23, 2001, agents Davis and Choldin resumed questioning Reid at the Plymouth Facility at around 5:10 p.m. They reminded him of his Miranda safeguards, which he said he understood. He also signed a form acknowledging that he understood his rights and agreed to be questioned.”

The next month, a federal grand jury returned an indictment against Reid for attempted use of a weapon of mass destruction, attempted homicide, placing an explosive device on an aircraft, attempted murder, interference with flight crew members and attendants, attempted destruction of an aircraft, using a destructive device during and in relation to a crime of violence and attempted wrecking of a mass transportation vehicle.

Later that year, Reid pleaded guilty to all charges, and was sentenced to life in prison on Jan. 30, 2003.

During a Jan. 16, 2002, news conference announcing charges against Reid, Attorney General John Ashcroft was asked whether he “consider[ed] using a military tribunal in prosecuting [Reid].” Ashcroft replied: “I think people were alert, and that created a factual basis for the kind of court case that we've alleged. I did confer with the Department of Justice — pardon me, with the Department of Defense and with their general counsel — and they had no objection to our proceeding in this matter.”

Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) has said some of the Bush administration actions in the case were a mistake. At a Capitol stakeout on Tuesday, McConnell said: "Regardless of what may have happened in the past, and we have had some terrorists tried in U.S. courts, we've learned from that. It's a mistake. Since then, we set up military commissions. There are courtrooms, state-of-the-art courtrooms at Guantanamo. That's where the terrorists have been kept. It's clear that we ought to detain foreign terrorists at Guantanamo and try them at Guantanamo in military commission courtrooms. That is the sensible way to deal with this aspect of the war on terror. And most of my members think that that's the way we ought to go."

[martha]

How is it a bad thing that we're following the Constitution?

[PhilsFan]

That blatant lie about Reid's citizenship was fun.

[deep]

A photo of Jamie Pauline-Ramirez, center, with her grandmother Emma Johnson, left, and her mother Christine Holcomb, right.

Profiling?

this suspect would get passed right through.

Paulin-Ramirez's Actions Raised Mother's Concerns

By STEPHANIE SIMON

LEADVILLE, Colo.—Slumped on her couch with her cigarettes, her fading photographs and her memories, Christine Holcomb-Mott said she no longer knew what to believe.

Her 31-year-old daughter, Jamie Paulin-Ramirez, had been taken into custody in Ireland, linked to an alleged plot to kill a cartoonist who satirized the Prophet Mohammed.

Mrs. Holcomb-Mott hadn't talked to her daughter in days. She didn't know whether she had a lawyer, a court date, an explanation. But her daughter's behavior over the past few months, including she says, possible correspondence with a foreign national who wanted to take flying lessons in the U.S., unnerved her.

The Wall Street Journal hasn't reached Ms. Paulin-Ramirez and some events that her mother recounts about her daughter's home life couldn't be independently verified. But Mrs. Holcomb-Mott says she had been feeling estranged from her daughter for nearly a year.

Though they lived under the same roof, in a pink-painted house with wind chimes out front, the mother and daughter rarely talked, except to argue about Ms. Paulin-Ramirez's abrupt adoption of the Islamic faith and her decision to veil herself in a hijab. These tensions existed in the household despite the longtime embrace of Islam by Mrs. Holcomb-Mott's husband, George Mott.

Her daughter spent her time at work or online, Mrs. Holcomb-Mott said. Internet connections are iffy in this small, high-mountain town, but she would remain at the computer until 3 a.m. some nights, chatting online with new friends in far-off places, whose pictures she wouldn't let her parents see, Mrs. Holcomb-Mott said.

"I don't know who or what she is any more," Mrs. Holcomb-Mott said. "That scares me."

Her husband chimed in from a corner chair. "Jamie's made her bed," he said, "and she can lie in it."

Though she said she still loved her daughter, she and Mr. Mott have focused their energies on the other member of her family now in Ireland: Their grandson, Christian, who turned six last month.

Irish authorities have released no information about the grandson and it hasn't been possible to determine his whereabouts. His grandparents say they assume he is in the care of authorities in Ireland. They aim to get custody of the boy, even if it means making the case that his mother is an unfit guardian. "I'm so worried about that baby," Mrs. Holcomb-Mott said.

The boy's father, who is Mexican, has made no contact with the family since Christian was a baby, according to Mrs. Holcomb-Mott.

Ms. Paulin-Ramirez and her son moved into the Mott home here in Leadville in 2007. Christian was then a sturdy, chubby-cheeked toddler whom the family nicknamed "Huey," after the old cartoon character Baby Huey, they say. Mrs. Holcomb-Mott even ordered a vanity license plate for her truck: GMAHUEY—for Grandma of Huey.

Ms. Paulin-Ramirez, they say, had lived a scattered adult life. They described her as rootless and searching, running through several marriages, moving from place to place. She went through a period of infatuation with tough street gangs, her stepfather said.

But in Leadville, she seemed to settle down. She worked the morning shift as a clinic medical assistant, setting her alarm for 5 a.m. She took online college classes in the afternoons, working toward certification as a nurse practitioner.

Then last winter, they said she began expressing interest in Islam. "Critical Issues Facing Muslim Women," a video, arrived in the mail for her, along with a variety of texts—including, her stepfather said, "The Al Qaeda Reader," a collection of speeches and online postings about jihad.

Mr. Mott, a practicing Muslim for decades, said he tried to engage Ms. Paulin-Ramirez in conversation about the faith but said she wouldn't talk to him. He wondered how much she really understood, he said. She seemed to lack even a rudimentary knowledge of the Prophet Mohammed's life.

But he said Ms. Paulin-Ramirez began spending hours and hours online, in Islamic chat rooms still bookmarked on her computer. Whenever her parents came into the living room—where she had attached Arabic decals to her keyboard—she would minimize the pictures of the people she was chatting with, they say.

She did tell them about one man she had met online, a foreign national who kept asking her to help him come to Colorado to take flying lessons, said her stepfather who said he yelled at her: "Doesn't that raise a red flag?" Several of the terrorists involved in the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks took flying lessons in the U.S.

After a bit, he said, Ms. Paulin-Ramirez no longer mentioned the would-be pilot, but soon after began communicating with another man.

Ms. Paulin-Ramirez told her parents that this new online friend was her teacher, instructing her about Ramadan, they say. But she would be up until 3 a.m. talking with him, leaving her just an hour or two to sleep before work. Her parents suspected an online romance.

They felt powerless. She was 31, an adult, a mother, and they couldn't make her stop, they said.

"I'm not against Muslims," Mrs. Holcomb-Mott said. "I married one." But she felt her daughter's newfound faith was just a phase. "She is the type of person that can be easily brainwashed," the mother said.

Then last fall, on a Friday, Sept. 11, Ms. Paulin-Ramirez told her parents she was driving to Denver for the weekend. She left most of the headscarves she had been wearing since announcing her conversion to Islam, her parents say. She took her son.

When she hadn't returned on the following Monday, missing a scheduled shift at work, Mrs. Holcomb-Mott called the local police. When a week passed with no word from her daughter, Mrs. Holcomb-Mott again called police, saying "her mother's intuition was telling her there is something very wrong," according to the police report.

Leadville Police Sgt. Saige Thomas wanted to help but said there was little she could do. "I explained that Jamie is an adult, and that she could go wherever she wanted to, and practice any religion that she wanted to," the police report states.

A few weeks later, Ms. Paulin-Ramirez contacted her family from Ireland. Mr. Mott said she told him that she had married the foreigner she had met online, that they had changed Christian's name to Wahid, and that he was attending a madrassa, or Islamic religious school.

By now, they said had little interest in talking with Ms. Paulin-Ramirez, tired of her phases, and furious that she had left behind a good job, a new car, a promising start at higher education.

But Christian was another matter. His tricycle still sits in the front yard, half-buried in snow. His grandparents study his pictures. Tears spilling down her cheeks, Mrs. Holcomb-Mott said she called Ireland to talk to him nearly every week since October. She said her heart broke with every conversation.

"He said, Poppa, get your truck and come get me. How're you going to find me, Poppa?" Mrs. Holcomb-Mott recalled.

Last time they talked with him, two weeks ago, Mrs. Holcomb-Mott said she told her grandson that their cat had just given birth to a single kitten, a white and gray puffball no bigger than her palm.

"Name him my name, Grandmamma," Mrs. Holcomb-Mott said her grandson told her. "Name him Christian."

Jamie Paulin-Ramirez's Actions Raised Mother's Concerns - WSJ.com

[BVS]

Can't read the whole article, but are those her parents?

[nathan1977]

Originally Posted by BVS

Can't read the whole article, but are those her parents?

Mother and grandmother.

[BVS]

Originally Posted by nathan1977

Mother and grandmother.

I don't mean to poke fun but I honestly thought her mother was a man in drag, she reminds me of an actor... I just can't remember who.

[corianderstem]

Elaine from Mr. Rogers' Neighborhood?