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Old 06-28-2012, 05:49 PM   #161
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maybe the problem was you?
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Old 06-28-2012, 05:58 PM   #162
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I thought this was about smoking

I don't think it should be illegal. People know it's so bad for them, but it's highly addictive. Just like so many other things that people know are bad for them. I've smoked just a few times in my life, it was part of bigger self destructive patterns and stress. I'm still tempted, I still have a few old packs of cigarettes. In spite of having them at arm's length I haven't smoked in years. Now that secondhand smoke has been virtually eliminated compared to how it used to be, people should be legally allowed the choice to smoke-and helped to quit.
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Old 06-28-2012, 06:09 PM   #163
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They're not going to turn someone down for being overqualified. They're going to hire them.
Depends. I work in IT and we have turned down overqualified people. It's not fun

Not sure if it matters but my earlier posts intended "liberal arts" to mean a liberal arts school, not a liberal arts degree. I don't like those mish-mash-make-your-own type degrees. I went to a liberal arts college but I have a degree in Business Communications. It's a liberal arts college because there is a required core curriculum, everyone has to meet core requirements regardless of their major/degree, but the degree program itself is not a random selection of courses. Because of this, some degrees end up being 5 or 5.5 years since you still need to take all the coursework for the degree program (and you have to have a high enough GPA from the core curriculum or you will not be accepted into your degree/major program). If you take the right courses in high school you can be exempt from parts of the core. I never took a language in college because I had taken enough in high school. I also tested out of having to take math just for the heck of it, though I ended up taking several math classes because of my degree/major. The dumbest thing about our core was that we had to take three PE classes. Other than that, the other courses were fine, some were interesting. I planned it right and finished the requirements for the core and degree after four years despite changing majors 5 times.
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Old 06-28-2012, 07:01 PM   #164
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I know that, you have made it abundantly clear. What I am saying: if you are going up against someone with the same amount of experience PLUS a liberal arts degree, that person should probably get that job unless you are a way better interview. They are more qualified. Period. It may not have the same weight as a degree in a more specified field, but it's still a hell of a lot better than your highest degree being your high school diploma.
Then we're agreeing and there's no disagreement there.

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You're really selling yourself short then. Few employers will have the time to care that you are an idealogue who objects to the concept of higher education as we know it in this country. They're just going to hire the more qualified person.

And a social revolution? There aren't enough people objecting to college to call it that. The only social revolution this country needs (s far as higher education is concerned) is to lower the costs of college, which is a far cry from what you are suggesting. I'd be all on board for that, considering I go to the most expensive public university in history.
That's exactly what I'm suggesting, actually. Something is wrong with the way college is being done. It's too expensive, the quality of education has gone way downhill (lower standards so more people can pass), many colleges with "average" programs are basically an extension of high school, not enough value is put on professors, etc. Yet college has ballooned in price. But part of the reason it's gotten like this is because people sat down and let it happen because of overvalue of the degree. Since everyone "had" to go to college, nobody bothered to question the rise in prices. It was "worth any cost". Even still today people just think "well I have to have a degree so I'll just do it even though I think the costs are ridiculous". Colleges are a business, they don't want to give up their profit margin.

I am not opposed to higher education and I never said I was. It just isn't the only option. I've also said that I'm going back to school.

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The idea that one or two bad teachers would turn you off from the experience entirely is kind of ridiculous. They can't all be winners. You seem to be a little too much of an idealist on this issue. More realism would help.
It was nine, not one or two.

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They're not going to turn someone down for being overqualified. They're going to hire them.
That happens all the time, actually, and it should (though sometimes it happens in the wrong areas). We don't need any more psychology majors serving starbucks. One of my friends was turned down in the IT world by four different employers for being too overqualified. Meanwhile, the work he was "qualified" to do kept saying "person MUST have a degree in IT". He doesn't have a degree, he just has 8 years of hands on experience, tons of certifications, and a very impressive resume. He was ruled out based on his lack of education alone by many employers, and by the ones that didn't care about education he was "over qualified".

But he did find a job eventually, interviewed with someone that wanted a college degree but managed to impress them enough to get the position. It took a long time for it to go down well, though. The reason he has the experience he did is because when he was 19 years old someone cut him a break and gave him a chance and hired him.

It's not just about over qualification though. Both ends of the spectrum need to be fixed. Retail stores need to realize that a degree is not a valid requirement to operate a cash register, and something needs to be done to create more jobs for those with degrees. In some fields it's really open and far less competitive than others. But in those other fields, it's so competitive that people will go five years after college before they get a job offer for something related to what they specialized in.

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Not sure if it matters but my earlier posts intended "liberal arts" to mean a liberal arts school, not a liberal arts degree. I don't like those mish-mash-make-your-own type degrees. I went to a liberal arts college but I have a degree in Business Communications.
I completely misunderstood you then and I sincerely apologize there. Yeah I have no beef with liberal arts colleges considering I went to one. It's just that "mix and match" degree that I don't like.

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If you take the right courses in high school you can be exempt from parts of the core. I never took a language in college because I had taken enough in high school. I also tested out of having to take math just for the heck of it, though I ended up taking several math classes because of my degree/major.
I tested out of science and math. They didn't let you test out of literature though (one of the colleges I got accepted into did test me out of it, but I didn't want to go to that school because it was far removed from home and I didn't want to stray too far). I tested out of math but when I go back to school the first thing I'm going to do is redo math because I love it.

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The dumbest thing about our core was that we had to take three PE classes. Other than that, the other courses were fine, some were interesting. I planned it right and finished the requirements for the core and degree after four years despite changing majors 5 times.
Every time you post you say something else that impresses me.
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Old 06-29-2012, 01:28 AM   #165
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I don't think that should be the focus of one's life.
What should be the main focus then?

Please don't bother in replying if you are going that the focus should be finding love.
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Old 06-29-2012, 05:12 AM   #166
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What should be the main focus then?

Please don't bother in replying if you are going that the focus should be finding love.
I'd suggest that leading a fulfilling life is a better long term focus than making money. I'd rather make a modest living doing something I find fulfilling rather than make money efficiently at a job that slowly eats my soul.

I'd also suggest that, for most, a fulfilling life would also include finding love (dammit, I bothered to reply).
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Old 06-29-2012, 08:13 AM   #167
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Originally Posted by Diemen View Post
I'd suggest that leading a fulfilling life is a better long term focus than making money. I'd rather make a modest living doing something I find fulfilling rather than make money efficiently at a job that slowly eats my soul.

I'd also suggest that, for most, a fulfilling life would also include finding love (dammit, I bothered to reply).


I can't believe somebody had to actually type that out.

From personal experience, as somebody who was in one of the highest paying sectors and chose to leave, salary be damned, I can tell you with certainty that heaps of money doesn't bring you happiness and doesn't make up for everything that is lacking in your private life because you have to devote 98% of your working hours to your job. This is just one of those things that people tend not to think or not to believe when you tell them what your salary is because their eyes glaze over with thoughts of the car they could have, the bigger house, a new iPad, the spur of the moment vacation to Hawaii, or nice late summer days in the south of France. I didn't get it either until I tried it.
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Old 06-29-2012, 10:03 AM   #168
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For me there's an in between. I don't need to work myself to death so I can be rich and I don't feel like my self-worth is based on my job. I work to make money and that's really the long and short of it but that said, I'm not rich. You won't ever find me working 80 hours a week and pulling in triple figures. I like my job because it's 8am-5pm. I don't (and can't, really) take work home with me. I am perfectly happy not having a fulfilling career because the things I truly enjoy in life are things that you can't make a career anyway. I've tried doing side jobs and projects than involve my hobbies and found that the second money gets involved, it feels like an obligation. Also I had problems with people insisting on doing things that were not best practices and feeling obligated to comply because I was being paid even though I didn't want my name on the end product. So, I very intentionally reserve what I truly enjoy doing and what fulfills me as a person as something I do outside of work. I work just hard enough and long enough so that I can afford to live fairly comfortably and look forward to what I really enjoy (namely training dogs which involves traveling almost every weekend, doing projects around my house, and spending 2 weeks each summer with family). The benefits (vacation, health insurance, help with Phil's graduate tuition) and the flexibility my job offers me is more important than the salary. The actual work I'm doing, I could take it or leave it.
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Old 06-29-2012, 10:57 AM   #169
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On the topic of smoking - how does everyone feel about dating a smoker?

My best friend recently broke up with a b/f of three years because of a few things but primarily the smoking. She is very anti-smoking because she grew up in a house with parents who smoked like chimneys and it always made her sick, so her dealbreaker with respect to dating was that precise thing. When she met the b/f, she told him on date two that she doesn't date smokers and he didn't comment one way or another, but some 6 months later admitted to her that he smokes a pack a day but he would wear a patch whenever he went out with her. At that point she felt emotionally involved and stayed with him because he promised her that he would cut down and quit. But although he initially cut down, it escalated back and he eventually told her he had no plans to quit, he was happy with his smoking as it was, etc.

I wouldn't date a smoker either, to be honest. The smell of it really disgusts me. The way I see it is that everyone has dealbreakers, and if this is someone's, it's fair.
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Old 06-29-2012, 11:15 AM   #170
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Hypothetically, no. The smell of it disgusts me too, and there's things like kissing. Especially a pack a day, ick. That sounds so insensitive and discriminatory, and it probably is. My parents both smoked too and it grossed me out. But I could never be with a heavy drinker either, and I probably have a pretty strict definition of heavy. Having alcoholism in my family, that's a definite no for me. Nor a drug user either. Just my personal preference.

It would be tough and painful to be deeply in love with someone and have that type of thing be what keeps you apart.
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Old 06-29-2012, 01:03 PM   #171
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I would not date a smoker, no. I can't stand the smell that permeates everything...clothes, hair, car. I would resent a partner spending all that money on cigarettes.

My dad smokes a pack a day and while he never smokes in the house it's still nasty. He smells, his car smells. He has a can for butts but we still find them all over the yard. Besides the smell and him having to constantly go outside even in the freezing dead of winter, I just can't over people throwing their trash around. I don't throw my trash around so why do smokers toss nasty butts anywhere they please? I've yet to meet a truly clean, considerate smoker. I love my dad and all but the smoking is just nasty, and he had two tumors removed before he was even 40 years old.

Luckily in my circle of friends there are no smokers (a few couples that will share a pack and it will last them months) so it's never really come up.
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Old 06-29-2012, 01:15 PM   #172
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I dated a smoker for a few years. He only smoked outside, and I never thought he smelled like smoke. Or tasted of it, surprisingly. The only thing that bugged me was the frequent smoke breaks.

Never having smoked myself, I did hang around a lot of smokers in college, and it never really bothered me. The smoke fresh from the cigarette never bothered me too much (not like I wanted to be directly in its path).

The only time the smell bugs me is when it's that old, stale smell, like in the car of someone who smokes and never empties the ash tray.

Oh and yeah, people who toss their butts on the ground piss me off. Sometimes I'm tempted to pick it up and chase after them. "HEY, YOU DROPPED SOMETHING!"

I've heard people argue that they don't want it to cause a fire by putting it into a trash can. Then make sure it's well ground-out and not a danger!

The world is not your damned ash tray. Put the butt back in my your pack and dispose of it later if you must. Don't throw it on the goddamned ground.
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Old 06-29-2012, 01:20 PM   #173
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I actually like the smell of cigarettes, so if I'm having a conversation with somebody and they need to smoke, I usually just go outside with them. I don't care.

The thing is, I've had a few phases throughout my life when I suspected I had asthma (though it was never formally diagnosed), so I don't really want to fuck with it. Plus, it costs too much. I'm a lot better off not starting.
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Old 06-29-2012, 01:24 PM   #174
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Oh and yeah, people who toss their butts on the ground piss me off. Sometimes I'm tempted to pick it up and chase after them. "HEY, YOU DROPPED SOMETHING!"

I've heard people argue that they don't want it to cause a fire by putting it into a trash can. Then make sure it's well ground-out and not a danger!

The world is not your damned ash tray. Put the butt back in my your pack and dispose of it later if you must. Don't throw it on the goddamned ground.
Seriously. I mean, I could argue that dog feces might spontaneously combust in a hot trash can so does that mean I don't have to clean up after my dogs?
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Old 06-29-2012, 02:56 PM   #175
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From personal experience, as somebody who was in one of the highest paying sectors and chose to leave, salary be damned, I can tell you with certainty that heaps of money doesn't bring you happiness and doesn't make up for everything that is lacking in your private life because you have to devote 98% of your working hours to your job. This is just one of those things that people tend not to think or not to believe when you tell them what your salary is because their eyes glaze over with thoughts of the car they could have, the bigger house, a new iPad, the spur of the moment vacation to Hawaii, or nice late summer days in the south of France. I didn't get it either until I tried it.
My dad made a lot of money when I was little. We were bordering the salary line for "rich". He worked as a technical director of an independent software company and traveled all over the world for a living. First class plane tickets, free five star hotels, lots of travel points, the whole nine yards. The catch was that he would be gone for anywhere from 1-3 weeks at a time. When we went on vacation we stayed in the fanciest of hotels and sure, we were extremely comfortable, but he was never home. When he was home, he was so exhausted he couldn't really have fun with us.

He resigned and moved to a much lower paying position at a different company when I was in 3rd or 4th grade because he couldn't do it anymore. He had no life outside of his work. He still made more than a lot of people, but we weren't "rich" anymore. I definitely agree that people don't really understand how hard it actually is. Making that kind of money is not for the faint of heart.

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For me there's an in between. I don't need to work myself to death so I can be rich and I don't feel like my self-worth is based on my job. I work to make money and that's really the long and short of it but that said, I'm not rich. You won't ever find me working 80 hours a week and pulling in triple figures. I like my job because it's 8am-5pm. I don't (and can't, really) take work home with me. I am perfectly happy not having a fulfilling career because the things I truly enjoy in life are things that you can't make a career anyway. I've tried doing side jobs and projects than involve my hobbies and found that the second money gets involved, it feels like an obligation. Also I had problems with people insisting on doing things that were not best practices and feeling obligated to comply because I was being paid even though I didn't want my name on the end product. So, I very intentionally reserve what I truly enjoy doing and what fulfills me as a person as something I do outside of work. I work just hard enough and long enough so that I can afford to live fairly comfortably and look forward to what I really enjoy (namely training dogs which involves traveling almost every weekend, doing projects around my house, and spending 2 weeks each summer with family). The benefits (vacation, health insurance, help with Phil's graduate tuition) and the flexibility my job offers me is more important than the salary. The actual work I'm doing, I could take it or leave it.
This is where I fall. My fiance is one of those 80 hours a week people. His work follows him everywhere. He absolutely loves what he does but it's really stressful. There are times when he's going to work at 8AM, comes home at 5-6PM, and then has to continue working on his desktop until 2AM. This can last for weeks and it's no fun.

I could never do something like that. I want a job that allows me to maintain a relatively comfortable lifestyle and that's it. The career tracts I have interest in are all low paying compared to a lot of other jobs I could be doing based on my skill set (largely tech related). But for me all I need is to not worry about living paycheck to paycheck and to have a low stress job that doesn't follow me home. But at the same time I like flexible hours and don't want to ever feel tethered down to a 9-5 job (there are one or two career tracts I'd make an exception for). I'm not the kind of person that could ever work a job I hated just to be comfortable, I'd rather live in poverty and work a job I somewhat enjoyed/felt in control over. I never understood how people could bear working terrible jobs for 10+ years and letting their health deteriorate from the stress just so they can be more comfortable at home. It just isn't worth it to me.

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On the topic of smoking - how does everyone feel about dating a smoker?

I wouldn't date a smoker either, to be honest. The smell of it really disgusts me. The way I see it is that everyone has dealbreakers, and if this is someone's, it's fair.
I would not date a smoker because there are serious health risks that go along with 2nd hand smoke and I don't want lung cancer. I grew up with a mom that chain smoked 2-3 packs a day in the house. I have friends that smoke and I'm okay with that but I could never live with a smoker. It's an expense I'm not interested in dealing with (in terms of both health and finances). But for me it's different because I'm not the dating type. I don't do casual relationships. Maybe if I did I'd feel differently, but when I "date" someone I'm serious about them and I could never move in with/marry a person who smoked.

The smell permeates everything and I'd not only have to worry about money and my health, but I'd have to face the fact that there's a good chance they'll get cancer and die. That kind of worry would drive me sick with stress.
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Old 06-29-2012, 03:15 PM   #176
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I'd suggest that leading a fulfilling life is a better long term focus than making money. I'd rather make a modest living doing something I find fulfilling rather than make money efficiently at a job that slowly eats my soul.

I'd also suggest that, for most, a fulfilling life would also include finding love (dammit, I bothered to reply).
Until you don't see yourself affected by the lack of money you are not going to start to think differently.

Earning a lot does not translate to working 100 hours a week until you die. In fact, most people that earn that much do not really work as much as people think. The strategy is to find a business niche that has a high demand, work efficiently and reap up the rewards.

Certainly, I do agree that money does not buy happiness but it does play a very important role in it.
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Old 06-29-2012, 03:24 PM   #177
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Until you don't see yourself affected by the lack of money you are not going to start to think differently.
Huh?

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Earning a lot does not translate to working 100 hours a week until you die. In fact, most people that earn that much do not really work as much as people think. The strategy is to find a business niche that has a high demand, work efficiently and reap up the rewards.
I don't think you understood my point. Even if you are in a high-paying job that you like, I don't think "making money efficiently" should be your focus. I would hope you'd focus more on what that money will allow you to do with your life.
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Old 06-29-2012, 03:30 PM   #178
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I wouldn't date a smoker either, to be honest. The smell of it really disgusts me. The way I see it is that everyone has dealbreakers, and if this is someone's, it's fair.
Same here. Absolutely can't stand the smell of cigarettes, particularly the leftover stench that settles into clothes and skin and hair. My wife used to smoke the occasional cigarette (like, 3 or 4 in a year) before we were married, and though I won't begrudge her the rare cigarette (hell, I'll enjoy a cigar once a year or so), I'm not going to kiss her after she smokes and she knows it.
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Old 06-29-2012, 07:07 PM   #179
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I think the main focus of one's life can vary from person to person. Some people focus on love, some focus on money, whatever.

I would like to find work that meant I didn't have to live paycheck to paycheck anymore, so that I could better take care of myself and my family (and be able to help out my friends when needed, too). A more comfortable financial life would be wonderful. But I don't need, nor do I want, to be rich. I honestly wouldn't know what to do with all that money and would probably end up giving most of it away anyway.

As for dating a smoker...ehhhh, yeah, I don't think I could, either. The smell just really gets to me after a while, I couldn't stand having all my stuff smelling like smoke. And if I ever have children, or if I find myself with nieces or nephews, I don't want them living in or coming over to a house with cigarette smoke wafting around, either.
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Old 08-22-2012, 01:03 AM   #180
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What about this proposal?

Bid to ban cigarettes for anyone born after 2000

I have to admit, I would have been vehemently against this about two years ago, but I don't think I'd be enraged if it happened. I used to enjoy a smoke when I was drinking but then my mum got breast cancer for the second time and I decided never to smoke again if there was any chance I was going to get cancer from it. So I haven't had a ciggie since April 24, 2011.

I still think smokers should be able to smoke all they want (though I like plain packaging and restrictions on where you can smoke), so this is an extreme step, but hey, I'd kind of like to see a world where there's no ciggie butts on the ground and I don't get hit with the smell (not that it bothers me all that much at the moment).
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