Science and Religion - Page 9

Pearl · 08-19-2013, 03:49 PM

I'm at work, so I want to quickly comment before I can give a more in-depth response later.

I think the less intelligent religious people are those who follow blindly and don't question, either out of fear, brainwashing or other reasons. I think it is possible to believe there is a God and be intelligent. In that case, I would say those people have a more mature relationship with God, as in they know while He may be the boss, they are fully aware that they can't be passive in life and sometimes God wants them to think for themselves so they can grow. I also think they can tell the difference between God's voice and their ego or subconscious.

Jive Turkey · 08-19-2013, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AEON

I think the problem here is that "belief in some sort of God" attracts people from the whole spectrum of intelligence, and atheist (which a small fraction of the total population) does attract brighter minds.

This is a very good and relevant point

Jive Turkey · 08-19-2013, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pearl

I think it is possible to believe there is a God and be intelligent.

I wouldn't doubt that for a second. You need only look at the posts in this very thread

Jive Turkey · 08-19-2013, 08:44 PM

I only posted that article because I felt it was relevant to what we were discussing earlier. I agree with you both that it doesn't really prove anything. I find the increasingly negative correlation between religiosity and level of accomplishment in sciences (ie, a better understanding of how things work) to be more telling.

Dfit00 · 08-19-2013, 11:31 PM

You do not have to be hardcore religious in order to be a good person.

Irvine511 · 08-19-2013, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pearl

I'm at work, so I want to quickly comment before I can give a more in-depth response later.

I think the less intelligent religious people are those who follow blindly and don't question, either out of fear, brainwashing or other reasons. I think it is possible to believe there is a God and be intelligent. In that case, I would say those people have a more mature relationship with God, as in they know while He may be the boss, they are fully aware that they can't be passive in life and sometimes God wants them to think for themselves so they can grow. I also think they can tell the difference between God's voice and their ego or subconscious.

I think it's a need for certainty.

Jive Turkey · 08-20-2013, 03:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dfit00

You do not have to be hardcore religious in order to be a good person.

It's easier to be an objectively good person without being hardcore religious

Pearl · 08-20-2013, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irvine511

I think it's a need for certainty.

As in, that there is a God? I'm not sure what you mean.

nathan1977 · 08-20-2013, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irvine511

I think it's a need for certainty.

Heard something interesting at church this week: doubt is not the opposite of faith but of certainty. Thought-provoking.

AEON · 08-20-2013, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irvine511

I think it's a need for certainty.

In a way, both science and theology chase after this. And at the same time - both do permit Mystery.

AEON · 08-20-2013, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jive Turkey

It's easier to be an objectively good person without being hardcore religious

I think I agree, but can you clarify? Perhaps you can define "hardcore religious" - I'm not trying to tangle, I'm just curious.

Jive Turkey · 08-20-2013, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AEON

I think I agree, but can you clarify? Perhaps you can define "hardcore religious" - I'm not trying to tangle, I'm just curious.

Your decisions are never weighed down by dogma.

Irvine511 · 08-21-2013, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nathan1977

Heard something interesting at church this week: doubt is not the opposite of faith but of certainty. Thought-provoking.

Faith requires doubt. I agree.

U2DMfan · 08-21-2013, 12:56 AM

Faith is a need for Order over Chaos.

AEON · 08-21-2013, 01:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by U2DMfan

Faith is a need for Order over Chaos.

Or perhaps hope that order can made from chaos.

Jive Turkey · 08-21-2013, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by U2DMfan

Faith is a need for Order over Chaos.

What do you mean by this, DM?

U2DMfan · 08-21-2013, 01:19 PM

AEON - that is an excellent answer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jive Turkey

What do you mean by this, DM?

Finding a purpose to the chaos. Placing an order over it.

Is the world inherently (and objectively) chaotic randomness? Mostly, yes.
I am talking mostly about human nature and existentialism. Certainly there is an order to the process of life, for instance. Even the myriad variations. I am talking about reasoning the unreasonable beyond that. A child is killed. It must be God's plan or else any kid anywhere could die at any moment. Religion and faith is the comfort of an order to that chaos. Without it, it's just...a random (to one degree or another) sequence of causations.

Jive Turkey · 08-21-2013, 02:13 PM

Oh, ok, I see. I was hoping it wasn't a thermodynamics argument... not that I expected that sort of thing from you

U2DMfan · 08-22-2013, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jive Turkey

not that I expected that sort of thing from you

Hah. I almost used the word "entropy" somewhere in there but decided I didn't want to go there because I wasn't exactly sure I'd be using it properly.

AEON · 08-22-2013, 11:20 PM

I do find Entropy as...well...Biblical.

08-19-2013, 03:49 PM	#161
Pearl Rock n' Roll Doggie VIP PASS Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: NYC Posts: 5,741 Local Time: 09:46 PM	I'm at work, so I want to quickly comment before I can give a more in-depth response later. I think the less intelligent religious people are those who follow blindly and don't question, either out of fear, brainwashing or other reasons. I think it is possible to believe there is a God and be intelligent. In that case, I would say those people have a more mature relationship with God, as in they know while He may be the boss, they are fully aware that they can't be passive in life and sometimes God wants them to think for themselves so they can grow. I also think they can tell the difference between God's voice and their ego or subconscious. __________________

08-22-2013, 11:20 PM	#180
AEON Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: California Posts: 4,052 Local Time: 06:46 PM	I do find Entropy as...well...Biblical. __________________

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08-19-2013, 08:44 PM	#164
Jive Turkey ONE love, blood, life Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 13,646 Local Time: 09:46 PM	I only posted that article because I felt it was relevant to what we were discussing earlier. I agree with you both that it doesn't really prove anything. I find the increasingly negative correlation between religiosity and level of accomplishment in sciences (ie, a better understanding of how things work) to be more telling.

08-19-2013, 11:31 PM	#165
Dfit00 War Child Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Palm Beach, FL Posts: 897 Local Time: 09:46 PM	You do not have to be hardcore religious in order to be a good person.

08-21-2013, 12:56 AM	#174
U2DMfan Rock n' Roll Doggie VIP PASS Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: It's Inside A Black Hole Posts: 6,637 Local Time: 07:46 PM	Faith is a need for Order over Chaos.

08-21-2013, 02:13 PM	#178
Jive Turkey ONE love, blood, life Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 13,646 Local Time: 09:46 PM	Oh, ok, I see. I was hoping it wasn't a thermodynamics argument... not that I expected that sort of thing from you