Roadmap to HELL - One man caught on a barbed wire fence .... - Page 22 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind
Click Here to Login
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 09-23-2011, 05:57 PM   #421
Forum Moderator
 
yolland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,471
Local Time: 02:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by deep View Post
Quote:
"Now that they have those things, they don't seem so important to this current Israeli government, partly because it's a different country," said Clinton. "In the interim, you've had all these immigrants coming in from the former Soviet Union, and they have no history in Israel proper, so the traditional claims of the Palestinians have less weight with them."
^ That reminded me of something Bill Clinton said a year ago, at the same conference, about the impact of recent mass immigration of Russian Jews (now 20% of Israel's Jewish population) on attitudes towards land-for-peace:
Quote:
"An increasing number of the young people in the IDF are the children of Russians and settlers, the hardest-core people against a division of the land. This presents a staggering problem," Clinton said. "It's a different Israel." ...According to Clinton, the Russian immigrant population in Israel is the group least interested in striking a peace deal with the Palestinians. "They've just got there, it's their country, they've made a commitment to the future there," Clinton said. "They can't imagine any historical or other claims that would justify dividing it."

To illustrate his view on the Russian immigrant community, Clinton related a conversation he had with Natan Sharansky, the former Soviet dissident turned Israeli parliamentarian, who he said was the only Israeli minister to reject the comprehensive peace agreement Clinton proposed at the Camp David Summit in 2000. The proposal was eventually rejected by Palestinian President Yasser Arafat. "I said, ‘Natan, what is the deal [about not supporting the peace deal],'" Clinton recalled. "He said, ‘I can't vote for this, I'm Russian...I come from one of the biggest countries in the world to one of the smallest. You want me to cut it in half. No thank you.'" Clinton responded, "Don't give me this, you came here from a jail cell. It's a lot bigger than your jail cell."

Clinton used the anecdote to explain the Russian immigrant population's attitude toward a land-for-peace deal with the Palestinians."[Sharansky] was nice about it, a lot of them aren't," Clinton said.
I suspect that last line is his diplomatic way of hinting that as a group they appear to have imported certain stereotypically undesirable i.e. deeply illiberal features of Russian political culture along with them, which Israel's critics in turn often express in a not-so-nice way (making it doubly weird to contemplate that it was Russian kibbutzniks who basically laid the foundations for the modern country). Obviously there's much more to it than this, it's also Hamas and the Second Intifada and the settlements policy and the rapid growth of nationalist-religious Judaism since the 1970s (all of which are interconnected), but like the latter two factors, it's one you'd hardly know existed from reading the American papers.
__________________

__________________
yolland [at] interference.com


μελετώ αποτυγχάνειν. -- Διογένης της Σινώπης
yolland is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2011, 11:02 PM   #422
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,600
Local Time: 05:38 PM
White House "deeply disappointed:" new Israeli housing in East Jerusalem - Lynn Sweet

World Leaders Condemn New Israeli Settlement Building Plan � VOA Breaking News

This is the type of action that will only benefit Palestinian Statehood.

Israel, why??????
__________________

deep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2011, 04:07 AM   #423
Refugee
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Tel-Aviv, Israel
Posts: 1,300
Local Time: 01:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by deep View Post
The answer is easy: because it's our capital city, that's why.......
The world doesn't accept it, that's THEIR problem.

Israel wouldn't say anything if the U.S. built new apartments in Washington DC, right?
AchtungBono is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2011, 09:09 AM   #424
Resident Photo Buff
Forum Moderator
 
Diemen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Somewhere in middle America
Posts: 13,621
Local Time: 07:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AchtungBono
Israel wouldn't say anything if the U.S. built new apartments in Washington DC, right?
That's not a valid comparison and you know it.
Diemen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2011, 09:40 AM   #425
Refugee
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Tel-Aviv, Israel
Posts: 1,300
Local Time: 01:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diemen View Post
That's not a valid comparison and you know it.
Of course it is.....why doesn't anyone dispute that Washington DC is the capital of the United States?

We can argue back and forth all day and all year but the fact remains that Jerusalem has always been our capital city (ALL of it) and we reclaimed the entire city in 1967 when we recaptured the east side which includes our holy places.

Jerusalem is a unified city and it will remain so......

Again, I understand that people don't accept it...
AchtungBono is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2011, 11:32 AM   #426
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: London/Sydney
Posts: 6,609
Local Time: 02:38 AM
Always? Always?
Earnie Shavers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2011, 11:41 AM   #427
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,600
Local Time: 05:38 PM
Israel's biggest problem is not Hamas, but the extremists within it's own ranks.

Settlers' mosque-burning campaign expands into Israel | Reuters
deep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2011, 05:07 PM   #428
ONE
love, blood, life
 
financeguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ireland
Posts: 10,122
Local Time: 02:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AchtungBono View Post
Of course it is.....why doesn't anyone dispute that Washington DC is the capital of the United States?

We can argue back and forth all day and all year but the fact remains that Jerusalem has always been our capital city (ALL of it) and we reclaimed the entire city in 1967 when we recaptured the east side which includes our holy places.

Jerusalem is a unified city and it will remain so......

Again, I understand that people don't accept it...
Even if that's true the building of new settlements at this point is unhelpful from an optics point of view.
financeguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2011, 10:56 AM   #429
Refugee
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Tel-Aviv, Israel
Posts: 1,300
Local Time: 01:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by deep View Post
Israel's biggest problem is not Hamas, but the extremists within it's own ranks.

Settlers' mosque-burning campaign expands into Israel | Reuters
Hi Deep - I couldn't agree with you more on this.
I despise the right-wing extremists who think that desecrating graves and burning mosques is a proper response to terrorist attacks - or anything else for that matter.
AchtungBono is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2011, 10:57 AM   #430
Refugee
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Tel-Aviv, Israel
Posts: 1,300
Local Time: 01:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by financeguy View Post
Even if that's true the building of new settlements at this point is unhelpful from an optics point of view.
Hi Financeguy,

But we're not talking about settlements in this case - we're talking about building new apartments in a Jerusalem neighborhood.
AchtungBono is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2011, 12:42 PM   #431
ONE
love, blood, life
 
financeguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ireland
Posts: 10,122
Local Time: 02:38 AM
The desecration of Christian and Muslim graves that occured the other day is not acceptable. If these people are not firmly dealt with by Israel then the international community will have to re-consider its support.
financeguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2011, 03:41 AM   #432
Refugee
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Tel-Aviv, Israel
Posts: 1,300
Local Time: 01:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by financeguy View Post
The desecration of Christian and Muslim graves that occured the other day is not acceptable. If these people are not firmly dealt with by Israel then the international community will have to re-consider its support.
I assure you that these criminals WILL be caught and prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

It is a well-known fact that Israel grants full freedom of religion to all three major faiths and any desecration of any holy site (including cemetaries) is considered a violation of our own belief system and is viewed with the utmost severity.
AchtungBono is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2011, 11:10 PM   #433
45:33
 
cobl04's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: East Point to Shaolin
Posts: 57,725
Local Time: 12:38 PM
Not sure where else to put this...

Iranian actress Marzieh Vafamehr to be lashed over Australian film | Herald Sun

cobl04 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2011, 09:50 AM   #434
Refugee
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Tel-Aviv, Israel
Posts: 1,300
Local Time: 01:38 AM


YAY!!! What a great day for science-fiction fans!

Congrats.....
I'm now waiting for UNESCO to vote to accept Narnia and Oceania.

Mazal Tov!

U.N. agency approves full Palestinian membership - CNN.com
AchtungBono is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2011, 03:38 AM   #435
Refugee
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Tel-Aviv, Israel
Posts: 1,300
Local Time: 01:38 AM
Sarkozy, Obama bemoan Netanyahu over open mic - CNN.com

*in a loud voice*
I found this story to be VERY funny.....I have the greatest respect for President Obama and President Sarkozy....







*silently*
pssss.....by the way.......that black guy and the frog are a real pain in the ass.





.............What??? this is ON???..........ah Geez.....sorry.
AchtungBono is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2011, 08:53 AM   #436
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 33,066
Local Time: 08:38 PM
Did either Sarko or Obama use a slur to describe Bibi?
Irvine511 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2011, 10:02 AM   #437
Refugee
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Tel-Aviv, Israel
Posts: 1,300
Local Time: 01:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
Did either Sarko or Obama use a slur to describe Bibi?
Well, if you don't consider "liar" to be a slur......

Besides, I was joking - they weren't.

AchtungBono is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2011, 06:41 PM   #438
Forum Moderator
 
yolland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,471
Local Time: 02:38 AM
Israel's Immigration Ministry (MOIA) has an ad campaign running here now aimed at Israeli expats in the US, consisting of billboards in expat enclaves and a series of video ads darkly warning that they and/or their children will lose their heritage and identity if they stay here. The ads are raising hackles in the American Jewish community, particularly one featuring an Israeli expat and her cute-but-shallow boyfriend who just doesn't get why it's important to her to observe Yom HaZikaron (Israel's Memorial Day) when there are, like, parties and stuff they could be attending instead. Although the ad (probably strategically) doesn't explicitly state his ethnicity, most American Jews who've seen it got the distinct impression the boyfriend is meant to be seen as an American Jew, and therefore an unworthy match. A voiceover at the end somberly warns [rough translation], "They will always remain Israelis--their partners won't always understand."


"War on Christmas" enthusiasts may enjoy another ad from the series, in which we see Bubbe and Zayde's adoring faces fall as they discover via Skype that their American granddaughter is celebrating...Christmas!! (As if there aren't plenty of Russian Ashkenazim in Israel who do just that, and as if there aren't plenty of American Jews, me included, who never have.)


Jeffrey Goldberg at The Atlantic:
Quote:
I don't think I have ever seen a demonstration of Israeli contempt for American Jews as obvious as these ads. I understand the impulse behind them: Israel wants as many of its citizens as possible to live in Israel. This is not an abnormal desire. But the way it is expressed, in wholly negative terms, is somewhat appalling. How about, "Hey, come back to Israel, because our unemployment rate is half that of the US' "? Or, "It's always sunny in Israel"? Or, "Hey, Shmulik, your mother misses you"? These government-sponsored ads suggest that it is impossible for Jews to remain Jewish in America.

...The idea, communicated in these ads, that America is no place for a proper Jew, and that a Jew who is concerned about the Jewish future should live in Israel, is archaic, and also chutzpadik (if you don't mind me resorting to the vernacular). The message is: Dear American Jews, thank you for lobbying for American defense aid (and what a great show you put on at the AIPAC convention every year!) but, please, stay away from our sons and daughters.
__________________
yolland [at] interference.com


μελετώ αποτυγχάνειν. -- Διογένης της Σινώπης
yolland is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2011, 07:05 PM   #439
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 33,066
Local Time: 08:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yolland View Post
"War on Christmas" enthusiasts may enjoy another ad from the series, in which we see Bubbe and Zayde's adoring faces fall as they discover via Skype that their American granddaughter is celebrating...Christmas!!


is it wrong that a part of me loved this one?
Irvine511 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2011, 02:35 AM   #440
Refugee
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Tel-Aviv, Israel
Posts: 1,300
Local Time: 01:38 AM
I'm all for bringing Jews back to Israel the homeland but I believe that immigration (or repatriation) should be done by choice and not by coersion(sp?) or by making them feel guilty.

The first clip - with the memorial day - wasn't actually bad or offensive, although I would have conveyed the message a little differently by having the girl explain to her boyfriend the significance of the candles and why she felt the need to express solidarity with the fallen solders of Israel - in my opinion, THAT's why her partner didn't understand - because it wasn't explained to him.

The second clip was removed so I couldn't see it, but from the description I can understand the message. Through a process of interfaith marriages, there is a danger of American Jews losing their identity.

Again, I wouldn't put it in such a way as to create resentment among American Jews who feel "forced" to immigrate to Israel. As I said, Israel is the homeland of the Jewish people and every Jew should have the free will to immigrate if they want to - not because they've been bullied into it.

At any rate, PM Netanyahu ordered the campaign stopped after hearing the criticism from the American Jewish community.
__________________

AchtungBono is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Who to "Liberate" Next? melon Free Your Mind Archive 95 05-01-2003 04:55 PM
Why I Would Follow Bono Into Hell...... U2Soar The Goal Is Soul 10 10-10-2002 03:41 PM
The MacPhisto Society, Revisited Echo PLEBA Archive 15 11-26-2001 03:01 AM
Hinduism v. Christianity anitram Free Your Mind Archive 26 10-27-2001 09:28 AM
On Hell and Fundamentalism melon Free Your Mind Archive 1 10-07-2001 10:37 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:38 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com
×