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Old 12-09-2010, 01:53 AM   #301
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Reza Aslan, DailyBeast, Dec. 8
Quote:
...This week, three South American countries took the international community by surprise when they issued separate public statements recognizing a Palestinian state within the 1967 borders; i.e., the territory occupied by Israel in the Six-Day War. The countries—Brazil, Argentina, and Uruguay—comprise three of the four nations in the powerful trade group Mercosur; the fourth member, Paraguay, is expected to make a similar declaration soon, along with two other major South American powers, Bolivia and Ecuador.

Ever since the latest round of Israeli-Palestinian peace talks broke down last September, Abbas has been threatening to take his case directly to the United Nations to force a vote on statehood, much as the Israeli government did in 1948-49 following the end of the British Mandate over Palestine. It would be a bold move for an increasingly desperate Palestinian Authority because it would force the world body to act on its many statements in support of Palestinian sovereignty.

There is little doubt in anyone’s mind that should recognition of Palestinian statehood be put to a vote on the floor of the UN, it would win the support of every member country save two: Israel and the United States.
Unfortunately, these are the only two votes that matter, considering that the US has veto power over all UN declarations and has used it consistently to protect Israel from countless resolutions critical of Israeli policy in the Occupied Territories. Indeed, President Obama had explicitly promised Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu that he would prohibit any UN vote on Palestinian statehood in exchange for a 90-day extension of Israel’s settlement freeze. That deal fell through, primarily because Netanyahu’s right-wing government refused even to consider the possibly of an extension. As Israeli Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman told Israel Radio, “It’s clear to most people there will be no more freezes.”

...Not surprisingly, Israel’s Foreign Ministry criticized the statement from the South Americans, saying, “All attempts to bypass negotiations and to unilaterally determine issues in dispute will only harm the trust of the sides and their commitment to agreed upon frameworks for negotiations.” Considering that everyone now knows without a shadow of doubt that there are no such recognizable frameworks in place for negotiations, and absolutely no reason to think that the peace talks will resume any time soon, the Israeli statement must be read either as a cynical joke or as a deliberate ploy to continue pushing peace talks as far into the future as possible while gobbling up enough Palestinian land to make a contiguous state impossible. Just this week, another 625 new settlement units were approved for construction in East Jerusalem, adding to the 1,126 units that have already been constructed in the Occupied Territories since the partial freeze ended in late September.

...Obviously the statements from Brazil, Argentina, and Uruguay are merely symbolic. But as Palestinian Foreign Minister Riad Maliki noted, their importance lies in the fact that “the more countries that recognize the Palestinian state, the more pressure this will put on countries that are hesitant.” Already, about 100 nations across the world have come out in recognition of an independent Palestinian state, including, most recently, Turkey.

Symbolism aside, if there is one thing the Palestinians have learned in four decades of fruitless peace talks, it is that the only they will ever be allowed to have a state of their own is if they simply seize it for themselves. So then, enough talk. Enough stalling. It’s well past time to declare statehood and force a vote of recognition in the United Nations.

Obama claims the U.S. will veto any such vote. Let’s call his bluff. Let’s find out if this president is ready to stand utterly alone on the world stage as the sole head of state refusing to recognize the existence of a Palestinian state just so he can appease an ally, Israel, that over the last year has repeatedly gone of out its way to embarrass his administration and stifle his attempts at achieving a two-state solution.
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Old 12-09-2010, 02:00 AM   #302
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long over due

I am 100% in favor said recognition.
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Old 12-09-2010, 03:13 AM   #303
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Originally Posted by yolland View Post
Hello Yolland,

I must set the record straight here - this is false:

Ever since the latest round of Israeli-Palestinian peace talks broke down last September, Abbas has been threatening to take his case directly to the United Nations to force a vote on statehood, much as the Israeli government did in 1948-49 following the end of the British Mandate over Palestine. It would be a bold move for an increasingly desperate Palestinian Authority because it would force the world body to act on its many statements in support of Palestinian sovereignty.

Actually, it was the British who turned to the United Nations in 1946/7. A wave of Arab attacks against the Jewish population led to hundreds of Jewish deaths. Not only did the British authorities stand by and do nothing against these atrocities, but they compounded the problem by halting the flow of Jewish immigrants fleeing Europe and clearly adopted an anti-Zionist policy.
This resulted in acts of reprisal on the part of the Jewish resistance forces in Palestine - i.e., the Etzel, Lehi and Hagana groups - against the British authorities (most famously, the blowing-up of the King David hotel in Jerusalem and the storming of the Acre Prison).

The British authorities were ill-equipped to deal with this deadly situation and they decided to call upon the United Nations to deal with the Palestine question.

This led to the famous vote on the 29th of November 1947 in which the general assembly voted for a two-state solution in Palestine - a plan which the Zionist leadership embraced but the Arabs rejected flat out.
This historic vote ultimately led to the end of the British mandate in Palestine and the declaration of the state of Israel in May 1948.

So you see, there was no "out of the blue" declaration like the Palestinians want to do. We have absolutely no objection (well, at least I don't) to an independent Palestinian state living in peace alongside us, but to declare independence in a haphazard way while final status negotiations haven't been concluded yet will only backfire on the Palestinians.

Here is some more information on this subject:

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Old 12-09-2010, 07:16 AM   #304
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What are your thoughts on the rest of the article?
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Old 12-09-2010, 01:25 PM   #305
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I believe Aslan's point is that Ben-Gurion declared statehood in the absence of Arab acceptance of the UN partition plan. Obviously, majority international recognition of that declaration did not resolve the territorial conflicts by itself, and neither could Palestine recognition; what it did was affect the political dynamic. But in neither case could the strategy be said to be "out of the blue"; the whole point of the partition plan was for there to be both a Jewish state and an Arab state in mandate Palestine. Clearly the Arab decision to respond with war was self-defeating and changed the geopolitical calculus, hence 1967 becoming the reference point.

I don't know whether enough countries would jump on Abbas' ship to effect the scenario Aslan envisions. But unmistakably part of the reckoning here is that the US government, if forced to choose in such a context, might perhaps be at a point where it would accept a shift in diplomatic "ownership" of the problem towards the UN as the lesser of two evils.
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Old 01-25-2011, 06:15 AM   #306
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Surprised this hasn't been raised here yet:

The Palestine papers | World news | guardian.co.uk
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Old 01-25-2011, 08:34 AM   #307
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And I'm surprised THIS hasn't been raised yet....

In Lebanon, angry protests as a new PM is named - CNN.com

We are now faced with TWO Iranian-backed fronts - Hamas in Gaza and a Hezbollah-backed prime minister in Lebanon. I'm afraid this is only the beginning of a process that will lead to a de-facto Hezbollah takeover in Lebanon - which will lead to the same death, destruction, opression and isolation that Hamas has subjected the Palestinians to.

It's so typical of a terrorist organization.....
The Int'l court was about to publish their report confirming that Hezbollah was responsible for the assasination of former Lebanese PM Rafik Hariri (the father of the deposed PM). So they did what any terrorist group would do....they ran the "Sheriff" out of town (who happens to be the son of their victim) and put their own man in power, thus ensuring that the people responsible for the assasination would be safe from prosecution.

I feel sorry for the Lebanese people who are now on the brink of another civil war. I can only hope that the Lebanese people take the example of the brave people of Tunis and stop this downhill spiral before it destroys their country.
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Old 02-06-2011, 01:45 AM   #308
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without Mubarak's cooperation in keeping observers out,
Israel thinks it may be time for a little public relations

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/05/wo...er=rss&emc=rss


too little? too late?
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Old 02-06-2011, 06:32 PM   #309
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Too late for what? An economic development package is a good thing as far as it goes, but it won't address the sovereignty issues which are far more fundamental. As for the Egyptian coup/revolution/crisis, I'm not optimistic it'll change the Netanyahu government's disdain for negotiations.
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Old 03-13-2011, 03:39 AM   #310
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I am speechless with grief and seething with rage at these animals who have committed this atrocity.

Itamar massacre: Fogel family butchered while sleeping - Israel News, Ynetnews

I want you all to look at these photographs very carefully, read this story and then tell me what possible justification there can be for this unspeakable act of cold blooded murder:









May they all rest in peace and bask in the glow of God's eternal light and may their murderers burn in hell forever and ever.
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Old 03-13-2011, 06:06 AM   #311
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Quote:
Mahmoud Abbas condemns Itamar attack
By KHALED ABU TOAMEH AND JPOST.COM STAFF
03/12/2011 19:56


Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas on Saturday condemned the attack on West Bank settlement Itamar in which five Israelis were murdered.

In a statement released by his office, Abbas "stressed his rejection and condemnation of all violence directed against civilians, regardless of who was behind it or the reason for it.”

Abbas added that "violence produces violence and what is needed is to speed up a just and comprehensive solution to the conflict.
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Old 03-13-2011, 10:01 AM   #312
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And then after that tragic, repulsive act, there's this - Israel approves West Bank homes after murder of settlers | World news | guardian.co.uk - and once again the overall feeling is really just, fuck it, no-one's really trying, or has any intention of trying.
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Old 03-15-2011, 07:28 AM   #313
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For those who don't believe our naval blockade of Gaza is legal, or effective, or necessary......please read this:

IDF seizes Gaza-bound arms vessel - Israel News, Ynetnews

NOW do you understand????
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Old 03-24-2011, 11:15 AM   #314
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So there I was, minding my own business, watching TV, enjoying a nice peacefull night in my hometown of Ashdod - when all of a sudden the siren sounded. I leapt out of my chair, opened the shutters (to prevent the glass from shattering in case of impact) and ran to sit next to my mother in our living room until we heard the faint sound of the missile impact on the ground. A sound that I last heard two years ago and that I'd hoped never to hear again.

So, welcome to round two of Israel Vs. Hamas - I guess they must be jealous of all the attention that Japan and libya are getting so they've decided to start up again.

I'll keep you guys posted.

Rocket explodes in Ashdod - Israel News, Ynetnews
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Old 03-24-2011, 11:22 AM   #315
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Keep safe, thoughts and prayers are with you...
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Old 03-24-2011, 12:33 PM   #316
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Rockets for you in Ashdod, bombs in bus stops for me in Jerusalem. No one I know got hurt this time. This cycle will never end…

Jerusalem blast leaves 1 dead, dozens wounded - CNN.com
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Old 03-26-2011, 08:44 PM   #317
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Quote:
New York Times, Mar. 24

On one side were members of the Israeli Parliament and advocates who argued that there was only one legitimate way to support Israel from abroad—unconditionally. On the other were those who insisted that love and devotion did not mean withholding criticism. For an electric two hours on Wednesday, the sides fought bitterly inside a parliamentary hearing room. As they spoke, tensions on the Gaza border rose and turmoil spread across the Middle East; hours later a bomb went off in Jerusalem, killing one person and wounding dozens. Israelis are feeling increasingly insecure about any criticism they believe could help their enemies.

At the center of the parliamentary debate was a three-year-old American advocacy group, J Street, which calls itself pro-Israel and pro-peace, a left-leaning alternative to the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, or AIPAC, the pro-Israel lobbying group in the United States. J Street opposes Israeli settlements in the West Bank and urged President Obama not to veto an antisettlement resolution in the United Nations Security Council recently. The conveners of Wednesday’s hearing, a hawkish Likud legislator named Danny Danon and a conservative colleague from the centrist Kadima party, Otniel Schneller, wanted to expose J Street for what they believed it to be—a group of self-doubting American Jews more worried about what their neighbors say than what is good for the state of Israel.

...Jeremy Ben-Ami, J Street’s founder, came from Washington to defend his group, which claims about 170,000 supporters. “We should work through our differences with respect, vibrant discussion and open dialogue,” he told the legislators. “It only weakens Israel and the Jewish people to make differences of opinion into something greater and to accuse those who criticize Israeli policy of being anti-Israel or worse.”

The committee meeting, which drew a crowd and often descended into shouting matches, was unprecedented, according to many Israelis. No one could recall a debate inside Israel’s Parliament examining whether an American group calling itself pro-Israel was living up to the name.

...Shlomo Avineri, a political scientist at Hebrew University who did not attend the hearing, said J Street was in a problematic position because “it is very difficult to be an advocacy group while criticizing the subject of your advocacy. It is difficult to say we are the greatest supporters of Israel but on every issue that arises we are on the other side.” He added that the extreme right in Israel had always insisted that criticism of Israeli policy was unpatriotic. Now, the extreme right has more power than ever in the country’s history, he said, giving its views a greater platform.

Mr. Danon, the Likud chairman of the committee holding the hearing, said he would put to a vote in the coming two weeks a resolution calling J Street pro-Palestinian, asking it to “purge from its ranks” anti-Zionist elements and urging Israeli government officials to refrain from contact with it. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has consistently refused to meet with J Street officials.

Mr. Ben-Ami of J Street said afterward: “This is a time of real uncertainty and threat in Israel, and what we saw at the hearing is part of a larger trend of Israel turning in on itself. It is redefining who is a Jew, redefining who is a citizen and now redefining who is a friend.”
Incidentally, Danny Danon was Sarah Palin's guide on her recent visit to Israel; he has very close ties to Christian Zionists. Otniel Schneller is the former head of the Yesha (settlers') Council.

Ha'aretz editorializes:
Quote:
This is the worst of times to make friends and family into enemies. Who could possibly see the good in any of this?

Welcome to the new Zionism. Welcome to the new self-hating Jew, the corps of professed lovers of Israel who want Zionism only to themselves. And who hate the Jews who want to see Israel change. Which is, at this point, most Jews. The message of the new self-hating Jew is this: You don't like this the way it is? We don't need you. We don’t need anybody. We don't even need Obama, so what makes you think you've got any place here at all? This is the message: We're one big happy start-up here, and we don't need Debbie Downers to spoil the party. We take our Judaism straight-up frum or none at all. Our neighbors are, regrettably, Nazi scum on two legs, so we'll take our Israel with all of the West Bank and East Jerusalem, thank you very much. No others need apply. We want you gone. And we know how to make it happen:

...Boycott: Take the fastest growing pro-Israel organization in North American Jewish communities and on US campuses, the dovish J Street, and have Israel's ambassador shun it even as he attacks it. Then, despite the threat of imminent war and the specter of renewed terrorism, have a Knesset committee devote an entire session to "investigating" J Street's claims to being Zionist and pro-Israel. For Jews truly interested in alienating most other Jews and having Israel to themselves, the Wednesday Knesset hearings against J Street reached new heights. Said the American Jewish Committee, whose own politics are appreciably to the right of J Street: “In holding hearings on whether a voluntary American Jewish organization is indeed a pro-Israel lobby, the Knesset committee has interfered in an entirely inappropriate way in the internal affairs of the American Jewish community.”

Like it or not, an ancestral homeland sets the tone for an entire people. It may provide cultural and spiritual inspiration, a richness of language and the arts, a calm, profoundly positive sense of self and self-worth which comes of quiet pride in roots. Or it may become a shondeh. This is the message of the new self-hating Jew: There is no place for the likes of Gary Rosenblatt in the new Zionism. Nor J Street. Nor the New Israel Fund. Nor Jews who oppose the occupation. Nor Jews who believe that non-Orthodox Judaism is valid and important. A people which hates its own. A people which dwells alone. We are Zionism, the new article of faith has it. We don't need anyone. And we certainly don't need you. You, you liberal Zionists, you progressive Zionists, you leftists who for some reason still care about Israel, you're the new Palestinians. You have no right to your ancestral homeland, the place your people came from. Because we're here now, and we're not going anywhere.

...Israel, with the self-hating right in the lead, can no longer afford to make war on its own. Not now. It is one war Israel cannot afford to win.
The contrast between what this Knesset committee assumes the motives of American Jewish liberal Zionists to be and what Ha'aretz assumes them to be is really striking.
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Old 04-03-2011, 02:50 AM   #318
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Finally......after a year and a half of having to deal with the lies and false accusations of the Goldstone Report, judge Goldstone finally stepped up to the plate and announced to the world that he was wrong in his findings.....Israel did NOT commit war crimes, Israel did NOT target civillians during the war that Hamas started with us, and Israel DID investigate isolated incidents involving improper conduct of soldiers.

In short, judge Goldstone now admits himself what we've been saying all along - we had every right in the world to defend ourselves against the constant rocket attacks that Hamas launched against our civillian population, and we did not commit any war crimes during this campaign.

Not only that, the other committee chaired by Judge Mary McGowan Davis found that: “Israel has dedicated significant resources to investigate over 400 allegations of operational misconduct in Gaza” while “the de facto authorities (i.e., Hamas) have not conducted any investigations into the launching of rocket and mortar attacks against Israel.”

Really?? Hamas didn't investigate their attacks against us?? what a surprise!!

In short, thanks for nothing your honor......your one-sided report did immeasurable damage to Israel, you have accused us falsely of war crimes and tarnished the reputation of the IDF - which is undoubtably one of the most moral armies in their world. I'm glad that you finally realized that we were telling the truth all the time and that our actions were justified and any civillian casualties in Gaza were NOT caused on purpose but rather because Hamas used them as human shields......

Maybe next time the world will listen to us instead of blindly branding us with vicious labels.

...............but who am I kidding......


Here is Judge Goldstone's article in the Washington Post:

Reconsidering the Goldstone Report on Israel and war crimes - The Washington Post
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Old 04-03-2011, 02:56 AM   #319
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And as a footnote....watch this and try and answer the questions raised here.

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Old 04-03-2011, 11:37 AM   #320
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Glenn Beck has absolutely no credibility in the world of international affairs.
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