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Old 09-25-2012, 07:44 PM   #81
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I agree completely. It's a personal thing and no one's business. I think that should go along with not being judgmental about gay marriages and relationships and what anyone does in their bedroom-choosing to remain a virgin is no one else's business either. Seems to me we shouldn't be judgmental about that either If you want to be consistent, just worry about your own sex life and your own choices.
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Old 09-25-2012, 07:54 PM   #82
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Exactly. I firmly believe that's a big reason why so many people's relationships and things related to that struggle and fail. They're way too focused on what other people are doing and not concerned enough with making their own love lives worthwhile.

Besides that, I think everyone's had that experience where you can tell a loved one until you're blue in the face why you don't like this or that about their relationship or their sex life or whatever...most of the time the friend or family member you tell this to won't listen to your advice or will tell you to shut up and leave them alone. And I don't have much relationship experience of my own, so I don't feel like I have the expertise necessary to tell other people what to do anyway.

Like I've said before, if there's abuse involved, that I can certainly understand intervening in. If I found out someone I loved was in an abusive relationship I'd be doing everything I could to help get them away from it. And if a friend asks my opinion about a guy she's dating, and I think he's kind of a skeezball, I'll tell her I'm not fond of him.

But if a relationship has none of that going on, then you gotta let people live their lives and leave them be. You don't have to understand it or even like it, but it's still not your place to tell them what to do.
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Old 09-26-2012, 05:01 AM   #83
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I just figured since it's not the 1950s, it wasn't really something to be discussed
True. But this forum has exploded over far less!

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If someone wants to wait until they're married to have sex, that's totally fine. If someone doesn't want to wait, that's fine, too.
I just fundamentally don't see what one has to do with the other, and I really don't see why anybody would deprive themselves of doing something pleasurable and fun until after they've had a specific ceremony and got a certain piece of paper. To me, it's like saying you won't eat ice cream until you've spent a whole summer living in a tropical country and have the passport stamps to prove it. Obviously it mattered more in times past, before the invention of effective, readily available, cheap birth control; if you could potentially have a child, being in a stable relationship obviously helped improve your chances of affording to raise said child. But now it only seems to be religious tradition that's keeping alive this connection between sex and marriage ... and that seems to be much stronger in the US than in Australia/New Zealand. I'd be a bit surprised if most people I know were in a relationship for a month and hadn't had sex.

Plus, to be perfectly honest, the people I've met who've made a big deal about waiting until marriage to have sex have generally (generally!) either had some serious judgemental and/or prudish issues about sexuality, or were struggling to come to terms with their own sexuality. I realise the latter sounds like I am implying closeted homosexuals, but I'm more thinking of people who like to portray themselves as pure and wholesome when they don't know how to handle a very sexual, kinky side of themselves.

However ...

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That's a very personal decision to make, and a person should make it because it's what they feel most comfortable doing, and not because others are telling them what to do. I will never, ever understand why people are so obsessed with what others choose to do in their own bedrooms. Why the hell is that any of your business? Why do you care?
This I completely agree with.

(I should say at this point that I completely understand people who only want to have sex if they are in a committed, long-term relationship. But these days, that is not a synonym for marriage. Hell, in both my family and my partner's, the only relationships that have lasted are those who haven't got married! )
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Old 09-26-2012, 07:53 AM   #84
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Plus, to be perfectly honest, the people I've met who've made a big deal about waiting until marriage to have sex have generally (generally!) either had some serious judgemental and/or prudish issues about sexuality, or were struggling to come to terms with their own sexuality. I realise the latter sounds like I am implying closeted homosexuals, but I'm more thinking of people who like to portray themselves as pure and wholesome when they don't know how to handle a very sexual, kinky side of themselves.
The only person that I ever knew who took a purity vow/wore a ring (do people still do that?) walked around telling everyone how it is the measure of a man whether he'll try to sleep with you before the wedding. To that end, she recalled a story her Mom told her - when the Mom and Dad were dating, he propositioned her and she turned him down and he then told her that it had been a test and that he now knew he was getting a "quality" woman. You can't make this stuff up. Anyway, my friend ended up getting pregnant (shocking), dropping out of university and had a shotgun wedding. They are still married and have lovely kids together whom they adore, but you'd be wrong if you thought that she never wondered how things might have been if anyone had managed to take her down to her local Planned Parenthood.
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Old 09-26-2012, 09:09 AM   #85
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The only person that I ever knew who took a purity vow/wore a ring (do people still do that?)
The Jonas Brothers wore those rings. Russell Brand made fun of them at the VMAs some years ago, and I think Jordin Sparks has one too. And given the fact that there are purity balls in this country, that's a good sign that there are many who make those vows/wear the rings.


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Plus, to be perfectly honest, the people I've met who've made a big deal about waiting until marriage to have sex have generally (generally!) either had some serious judgemental and/or prudish issues about sexuality, or were struggling to come to terms with their own sexuality. I realise the latter sounds like I am implying closeted homosexuals, but I'm more thinking of people who like to portray themselves as pure and wholesome when they don't know how to handle a very sexual, kinky side of themselves.
This I've noticed too. They are so squeamish over the slightest thing and are very judgmental towards people who are not like them. When it comes to sex, everything is black and white with them and they fail to realize there are a lot of gray areas in this issue.
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Old 09-26-2012, 10:08 AM   #86
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Pretty sure for the Bros Jonas -- like with Britney -a the virginity thing was all part of the brand.
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Old 09-26-2012, 10:39 AM   #87
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Pretty sure for the Bros Jonas -- like with Britney -a the virginity thing was all part of the brand.
Maybe, but weren't they from some fundamentalist church and were home-schooled?

Anyway, there are people who do wear those rings, even in this day and age.
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Old 09-26-2012, 03:00 PM   #88
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The Jonas Brothers wore those rings. Russell Brand made fun of them at the VMAs some years ago, and I think Jordin Sparks has one too.
She did, because she went up and made some comment like "I'd rather have a purity ring than be a slut."

Because, you know, there's no in between. You're either a virgin or a slut.

John Legend was next to her when she made that comment and if I recall correctly, he made a pretty hilarious face at it.
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Old 09-26-2012, 03:24 PM   #89
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Because, you know, there's no in between. You're either a virgin or a slut.
And that's what is so frustrating. Sex is black and white with no gray area to these people. They live in such a bubble or cocoon where they're right and anyone different is wrong, and they can't comprehend any other viewpoint.
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Old 09-26-2012, 04:33 PM   #90
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I just fundamentally don't see what one has to do with the other, and I really don't see why anybody would deprive themselves of doing something pleasurable and fun until after they've had a specific ceremony and got a certain piece of paper. To me, it's like saying you won't eat ice cream until you've spent a whole summer living in a tropical country and have the passport stamps to prove it. Obviously it mattered more in times past, before the invention of effective, readily available, cheap birth control; if you could potentially have a child, being in a stable relationship obviously helped improve your chances of affording to raise said child. But now it only seems to be religious tradition that's keeping alive this connection between sex and marriage ... and that seems to be much stronger in the US than in Australia/New Zealand. I'd be a bit surprised if most people I know were in a relationship for a month and hadn't had sex.

Plus, to be perfectly honest, the people I've met who've made a big deal about waiting until marriage to have sex have generally (generally!) either had some serious judgemental and/or prudish issues about sexuality, or were struggling to come to terms with their own sexuality. I realise the latter sounds like I am implying closeted homosexuals, but I'm more thinking of people who like to portray themselves as pure and wholesome when they don't know how to handle a very sexual, kinky side of themselves.
I tend to agree fully with all of this. Besides that, even if one wants to get married, there's no guarantee that'll actually happen, and not everyone wants to marry anyway. So what exactly are those people supposed to do, be forced to remain celibate their whole lives? And with the divorce rate being what it is nowadays, the chances of the person you wait for being your one and only aren't always very high. It can work, sure, if the couple is truly right for each other and make it work and all that. But most of the time, you've saved it for someone that only winds up being there a few years at best and it just seems like a waste.

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However ...



This I completely agree with.

(I should say at this point that I completely understand people who only want to have sex if they are in a committed, long-term relationship. But these days, that is not a synonym for marriage. Hell, in both my family and my partner's, the only relationships that have lasted are those who haven't got married! )
LOL. Indeed.

That's kinda where I am. I knew I didn't want to have sex while a teenager, for all sorts of reasons, so I didn't, but since then, I just think I'd personally feel more comfortable being in a committed relationship before taking that step. I'm not waiting until marriage (I'd like to get married someday, if I find the right guy, but I don't know if that'll happen or when, and it's a long enough wait already ), but I do definitely want to be with someone I can trust and feel comfortable around.
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Old 09-26-2012, 08:09 PM   #91
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People just need to do what makes sense for them and not be so concerned with what other people do or don't do (that goes both ways).
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Old 09-26-2012, 08:29 PM   #92
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Anybody actually interested in hearing a different point of view on this?
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Old 09-26-2012, 09:31 PM   #93
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From what I know about you, Sean, you wouldn't be so harsh and judgmental as some of the people we are complaining about here. So fire away...
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Old 09-26-2012, 09:38 PM   #94
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Truth be told, I have no judgments.

There are choices that I've made in my life that make me a bit. . .unusual. . .but I'm okay with that. I understand what I've "missed out" on but for me that doesn't outweigh what I feel I've gained. But I don't think less of anyone who made a different choice.

That said, as a person who made the choice so many people apparently find virtually insane, I do feel a teeny bit judged myself.

I'd be happy to share my perspective but I don't know that I'd bother unless I felt that people were really interested in hearing it.
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Old 09-26-2012, 09:50 PM   #95
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Truth be told, I have no judgments.

There are choices that I've made in my life that make me a bit. . .unusual. . .but I'm okay with that. I understand what I've "missed out" on but for me that doesn't outweigh what I feel I've gained. But I don't think less of anyone who made a different choice.

That said, as a person who made the choice so many people apparently find virtually insane, I do feel a teeny bit judged myself.

I'd be happy to share my perspective but I don't know that I'd bother unless I felt that people were really interested in hearing it.
I don't judge people who choose to abstain from sex until marriage. That is their decision, their lives, their bodies, their sexuality. Let them be.

What I don't like is how some of these people make no secret that they feel anyone who does not save sex for marriage is promiscuous, lacks self-respect, is miserable and will never find happiness in their lives. I am not having one-night stands every weekend (I actually could never do one-night stands, for the record), I am not miserable and I have decent self-esteem. I also know plenty of people who were having sex before marriage with people they did not marry, and they are happily married to the people who don't mind about their past.

Like I've already said in this thread, there is a lot of gray in this issue that some abstinence-only people fail to realize. That is my only problem.
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Old 09-27-2012, 07:15 AM   #96
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I don't judge people who choose to abstain from sex until marriage. That is their decision, their lives, their bodies, their sexuality. Let them be.

What I don't like is how some of these people make no secret that they feel anyone who does not save sex for marriage is promiscuous, lacks self-respect, is miserable and will never find happiness in their lives. I am not having one-night stands every weekend (I actually could never do one-night stands, for the record), I am not miserable and I have decent self-esteem. I also know plenty of people who were having sex before marriage with people they did not marry, and they are happily married to the people who don't mind about their past.

Like I've already said in this thread, there is a lot of gray in this issue that some abstinence-only people fail to realize. That is my only problem.
I agree. It's unfortunate that some people feel that their choices/viewpoint in life are only valid to the extent that they can prove the invalidity of others choices/viewpoints.

That said I sometimes also get the sense that it's no longer possible to suggest that one might have a viewpoint/choice that might be beneficial for people in general than just the individual without it being cast as a judgment and offense. I happen to believe that the choices I've made are good choices in general, not just for me personally. But that doesn't translate into looking down on or judging other people. If there is no middle ground--if all we have is either "I'm right, happy, and enlightened and you are wrong, miserable, and benighted" or "My choice is right for me only, I am forbidden from suggesting that anything can be generalized to most/all people" then I think we all lose out.
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Old 09-27-2012, 09:33 AM   #97
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What I don't like is how some of these people make no secret that they feel anyone who does not save sex for marriage is promiscuous, lacks self-respect, is miserable and will never find happiness in their lives.
I think that the amount of people who really feel this way is in the minority. I have grown up and work in a pretty conservative Christian community and you won't find many people age 50 or under that still adhere to this line of thinking, and generally the people that do have issues that go way beyond how they feel about pre-marrital sex!
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Old 09-27-2012, 10:11 AM   #98
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I think that the amount of people who really feel this way is in the minority. I have grown up and work in a pretty conservative Christian community and you won't find many people age 50 or under that still adhere to this line of thinking, and generally the people that do have issues that go way beyond how they feel about pre-marrital sex!
If they are in the minority, then that's great. And I agree, anyone who does think like that does have issues, more like a good case of being ignorant and self-centered.
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Old 09-27-2012, 10:13 AM   #99
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I agree. It's unfortunate that some people feel that their choices/viewpoint in life are only valid to the extent that they can prove the invalidity of others choices/viewpoints.
Yep. I'd like to hear what you have to say, no judgment from me.
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Old 09-27-2012, 12:43 PM   #100
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That said I sometimes also get the sense that it's no longer possible to suggest that one might have a viewpoint/choice that might be beneficial for people in general than just the individual without it being cast as a judgment and offense. I happen to believe that the choices I've made are good choices in general, not just for me personally.
I think it depends largely on the topic that we're discussing. It's very easy to say that generally speaking, certain things are better for most people (like being honest or not smoking, for example). But when you get to things which are essentially judgment calls or subjective calls without a quantifiable measuring stick, it gets a lot more difficult.
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