bono_212
Blue Crack Distributor
I think it's very significant that your first response was, 'won't anyone think of the guns?' first.
Nobody in this conversation. It's a convenient strawman.
That was only one small piece of what I said. But regardless, I added it because that is what it seems Irvine would like to see.
It's actually a very important part of what you said (that accounted for 2 of 6 paragraphs in the post) because it underlines that we're not having the same conversation. The people you speak of don't exist in this thread. We're all in agreement that taking away every gun cold turkey would lead to some very serious problems and that the issue is cultural and systemic
A few thoughts from a "regular law abiding gun owner."
First, get off your high horse. I find it disgusting that rather than blame the mother fucker who did this, most anti second-amendment people will blame absolutely everyone and everything else before the person themselves. I take it personally that you believe I bear any responsibility for this.
I also like to drink alcohol, and I also like to drive my car, though never at the same time of course. Does being a responsible drinker make me responsible for all the thousands of DUI fatalities?
This also assumes that all responsible gun owners don't believe that there needs to be changes. But the issue is mental health, and the broken mental health system in this country and the broken background check system. And let's also not forget the many laws and regulations already in place that simply aren't enforced.
Most of the people I hear saying how we need to ban guns in this country ironically also feel like we need to end the war on drugs and rather spend our resources addressing the underlying issues of poverty and drug addiction (which I totally agree with). Our streets are flooded with both illegal drugs and illegal guns, yet when it comes to gun violence, somehow the same logic doesn't apply and banning them will simply solve the problem and make it all go away. (Even more ironic since a lot of the root causes of gun violence are the same as rampant drug abuse) Instead of addressing the root causes, they jump straight to the guns, because somehow guns are what makes people commit these terrible acts.
If you want to straight up ban guns, you're going to have to amend the Constitution and remove the 2nd amendment. I'm not a big fan of the NRA because of they're often extreme stance that puts guns owners in a bad light. But I also acknowledge that if it wasn't for them, myself and others would have lost their rights to own firearms long ago.
So if you want to take away anything from what I just said, it's that both sides of the debate need to take a step to find common ground. I think gun owners would be far less resistant to legislation to revamp background checks if legislators weren't also always trying to also ban black scary looking semi auto rifles and magazines that can hold more than a few bullets. With a better, universal and enforced background check system, as well as fixing the broken health care system and combating poverty and gang culture in inner cities, things like this would become rare.
Just my two cents.
Could you please elaborate on blaming the NRA and "regular law-abiding gun owners" for Mr. Flanagan's actions this morning?
As a gun owner, and as someone who believes in his "right" to bear arms, you have contributed to that young man's death.
I don't actually believe that guns would be banned. But that doesn't stop some from calling for it and pretending the second amendment doesn't exist. Or that it's somehow been misinterpreted for the past two and a half centuries since it was created, which I don't understand.
That's insane. Guess I'll go back to hunting with rocks and knives then.
3. Mental health is a distraction.
It's a useful distraction. Inefficient background checks are a useful distraction. Poverty is a useful distraction. If gun homicide leads to the improvement of mental health treatments, background checks and bans on obscenely dangerous assault weapons for civilians (which is where I start to question the limitations of the 2nd amendment), I call that making lemons into lemonade. Because a call for an outright ban is going to hit a brick wall.
I respect your passion on this issue though, I really do, and at heart share it.
I don't actually believe that guns would be banned. But that doesn't stop some from calling for it and pretending the second amendment doesn't exist. Or that it's somehow been misinterpreted for the past two and a half centuries since it was created, which I don't understand.
Enabling.Yeah? How so?
Correct me if I'm wrong, please, but Australia did not effectively ban guns. Australia made it much more difficult to purchase guns, and have much stronger regulations, but my reading is that in no way did they ban guns.
*extremely gun-owner voice* Gun culture is not what's causing these deaths, it's the culture of the people using the guns!People who think of the gun first (and YES, this is many of the law abiding citizens staunchly hanging on to their guns) need to admit openly that they value their choice to own a gun more than they value the human lives that are lost to gun culture. That's what it comes down to really.
The 18th Amendment existed. Until it didn't.
The 2nd Amendment should be changed. The Constitution was made to be a living breathing document. It was NEVER meant to be the end all, be all. It was specifically designed to be changed as times changed.
So guess what?
Times have fucking changed.
You want a gun so that you can protect yourself in the ways the forefathers intended? Sure! No problem.
Knock yourself the fuck out.
This gun culture in which we live in has to fucking stop. The guns need to go.
Is our record on mental health deplorable in this country? Absolutely. But that doesn't change that it's just too fucking easy for anyone and everyone to get a weapon of death that is completely and utterly unnecessary for the average citizen.
All of this.....
For example, why would a regular citizen need hollow point bullets?
Why would a regular citizen need anything more than say a hunting rifle to shoot game or a handgun to protect themselves with?
Because FREEDOM! And rights! And ancient pieces of paper saying they can!