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Old 08-27-2015, 08:51 AM   #81
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Correct me if I'm wrong, please, but Australia did not effectively ban guns. Australia made it much more difficult to purchase guns, and have much stronger regulations, but my reading is that in no way did they ban guns.
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Old 08-27-2015, 09:09 AM   #82
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I don't actually believe that guns would be banned. But that doesn't stop some from calling for it and pretending the second amendment doesn't exist. Or that it's somehow been misinterpreted for the past two and a half centuries since it was created, which I don't understand.
The 18th Amendment existed. Until it didn't.

The 2nd Amendment should be changed. The Constitution was made to be a living breathing document. It was NEVER meant to be the end all, be all. It was specifically designed to be changed as times changed.

So guess what?

Times have fucking changed.

You want a gun so that you can protect yourself in the ways the forefathers intended? Sure! No problem.



Knock yourself the fuck out.

This gun culture in which we live in has to fucking stop. The guns need to go.

Is our record on mental health deplorable in this country? Absolutely. But that doesn't change that it's just too fucking easy for anyone and everyone to get a weapon of death that is completely and utterly unnecessary for the average citizen.
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Old 08-27-2015, 09:11 AM   #83
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Yeah? How so?
Enabling.
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Old 08-27-2015, 09:18 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by bono_212 View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong, please, but Australia did not effectively ban guns. Australia made it much more difficult to purchase guns, and have much stronger regulations, but my reading is that in no way did they ban guns.


You can effectively ban guns without actually banning guns. That's how we need to go about this. Treat guns as a product with as much need to regulate as cars, and with the social responsibility of cigarettes. A gun in a house with children should be treated with the same opprobrium as a woman drinking and smoking while pregnant. Bring back shame, apply warning labels, tax the shit out of guns and bullets, make life inconvenient for gun owners as we do for cigarette smokers.

Incremental change we can believe in.

And I'll add I have no problems with hunting (asshole dentist game hunters aside). But you can join a club and do that. Regulate, regulate, regulate.
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Old 08-27-2015, 09:29 AM   #85
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People who think of the gun first (and YES, this is many of the law abiding citizens staunchly hanging on to their guns) need to admit openly that they value their choice to own a gun more than they value the human lives that are lost to gun culture. That's what it comes down to really.
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Old 08-27-2015, 09:37 AM   #86
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People who think of the gun first (and YES, this is many of the law abiding citizens staunchly hanging on to their guns) need to admit openly that they value their choice to own a gun more than they value the human lives that are lost to gun culture. That's what it comes down to really.
*extremely gun-owner voice* Gun culture is not what's causing these deaths, it's the culture of the people using the guns!
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Old 08-27-2015, 09:56 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by Headache in a Suitcase View Post
The 18th Amendment existed. Until it didn't.

The 2nd Amendment should be changed. The Constitution was made to be a living breathing document. It was NEVER meant to be the end all, be all. It was specifically designed to be changed as times changed.

So guess what?

Times have fucking changed.

You want a gun so that you can protect yourself in the ways the forefathers intended? Sure! No problem.



Knock yourself the fuck out.

This gun culture in which we live in has to fucking stop. The guns need to go.

Is our record on mental health deplorable in this country? Absolutely. But that doesn't change that it's just too fucking easy for anyone and everyone to get a weapon of death that is completely and utterly unnecessary for the average citizen.
All of this.....

For example, why would a regular citizen need hollow point bullets?

Why would a regular citizen need anything more than say a hunting rifle to shoot game or a handgun to protect themselves with?
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Old 08-27-2015, 10:00 AM   #88
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All of this.....

For example, why would a regular citizen need hollow point bullets?

Why would a regular citizen need anything more than say a hunting rifle to shoot game or a handgun to protect themselves with?
Because FREEDOM! And rights! And ancient pieces of paper saying they can!
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Old 08-27-2015, 10:14 AM   #89
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Because FREEDOM! And rights! And ancient pieces of paper saying they can!
I get it GG, that's such a stupid argument isn't it? I'm gonna go out on a limb and prolly say our forefather's had no idea of hollow point bullets and semi automatic weaponry back when this was written. And PLEASE don't think I'm a weapon hating lib because I'm not. My belief is that we have a right to protect ourselves, family and property.
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Old 08-27-2015, 10:36 AM   #90
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I'm not a weapon hating liberal either, I just do not see why regular citizens would need a weapon in their home. I just don't get it... Here there are guns, heavily regulated yes, there's shooting clubs where guns are locked into the club when you leave, there's hunters that have their rifles but are regulated as well, there's background checks, and of course our police officers have guns but don't use them that much (though it has been a point of discussion lately). So why, please someone tell me why would a random person need a gun in their house?
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Old 08-27-2015, 10:42 AM   #91
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The 2nd Amendment should be changed. The Constitution was made to be a living breathing document. It was NEVER meant to be the end all, be all. It was specifically designed to be changed as times changed.
Not jumping in the debate here, but you'd be surprised at how many people will debate whether it is a living document or not (amending considerations aside). That side of the argument is often called 'originalism' or 'original intent'. Similar arguments come about even when interpreting modern day laws: whether words should always be interpreted literally, whether we need to look at the intent of those that wrote the law/Constitution, etc. Seems it should be more clear-cut than that, but for some reason, that's not the case.
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Old 08-27-2015, 10:47 AM   #92
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Not jumping in the debate here, but you'd be surprised at how many people will debate whether it is a living document or not (amending considerations aside). That side of the argument is often called 'originalism' or 'original intent'. Similar arguments come about even when interpreting modern day laws: whether words should always be interpreted literally, whether we need to look at the intent of those that wrote the law/Constitution, etc. Seems it should be more clear-cut than that, but for some reason, that's not the case.


It's amazing how Scalia claims to be an originalist ... Except on this one single issue.
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Old 08-27-2015, 11:01 AM   #93
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Correct me if I'm wrong, please, but Australia did not effectively ban guns. Australia made it much more difficult to purchase guns, and have much stronger regulations, but my reading is that in no way did they ban guns.
In 1996, they had a compulsory gun buyback, banned semi-automatics, some rifles and shotguns and tightened up regulations elsewhere. No, guns are not banned in Australia.

The compulsory buyback is what wouldn't take here, but it's also a necessary element of cleaning house.
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Old 08-27-2015, 11:17 AM   #94
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It's amazing how Scalia claims to be an originalist ... Except on this one single issue.
I thought it was Scalia that once used a pre-1787 dictionary to explain a word from the Constitution in a case opinion, but I can't find a source for it right now. If you do a quick Google search though, it's definitely a means used by some originalists for justifying Constitutional language.

If you have a moment to kill, there's a Duke Law School article which has some interesting viewpoints on those sorts of textual matters.

http://scholarship.law.duke.edu/cgi/...74&context=dlj
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Old 08-27-2015, 03:16 PM   #95
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Responsible Gun Owner Keeps Firearms Safely Locked Away Where Only He Can Get Them During Mental Breakdown - The Onion - America's Finest News Source
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Old 08-27-2015, 03:34 PM   #96
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A lot in here I agree with.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/27/op...ting.html?_r=0

■ More Americans die in gun homicides and suicides every six months than have died in the last 25 years in every terrorist attack and the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq combined.

■ More Americans have died from guns in the United States since 1968 than on battlefields of all the wars in American history.

■ American children are 14 times as likely to die from guns as children in other developed countries, according to David Hemenway, a Harvard professor and author of an excellent book on firearm safety.


...

The lesson from the ongoing carnage is not that we need a modern prohibition (that would raise constitutional issues and be impossible politically), but that we should address gun deaths as a public health crisis. To protect the public, we regulate toys and mutual funds, ladders and swimming pools. Shouldn’t we regulate guns as seriously as we regulate toys?
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Old 08-27-2015, 03:47 PM   #97
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I posted this last night, but I'll post it again. I don't know who he is, but it's a very funny bit on a very serious topic. You all should watch it if you haven't already:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...D8&app=desktop
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Old 08-27-2015, 05:19 PM   #98
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I'm getting so frustrated with the whole "knives/cars" comparisons that always seem to come up in these debates. Yes, knives and cars have been used to commit murder. Absolutely.

But that is not their only use. That is not what they were designed for. They have plenty of non-violent uses.
It's pretty easy to get off of this argument.

How easily could you live if you didn't own a car? For most Americans, this would be nearly impossible, such a hassle that you'd just say fuck it and own a car.

Try living your life without knives!!! That butter aint gonna spread itself. Do you use your hands to open the turkey at Thanksgiving

Now, can you live your life without a gun? yes
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Old 08-27-2015, 05:45 PM   #99
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It's pretty easy to get off of this argument.

How easily could you live if you didn't own a car? For most Americans, this would be nearly impossible, such a hassle that you'd just say fuck it and own a car.

Try living your life without knives!!! That butter aint gonna spread itself. Do you use your hands to open the turkey at Thanksgiving

Now, can you live your life without a gun? yes


there are car/pool/ladder accidents. we call these accidents because that's what they are -- mistakes where people die.

guns are used to kill people. of course a gun can kill someone accidentally, but usually, it's a suicide or homicide.

how can anyone not see the difference? the law certainly does.
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Old 08-27-2015, 05:54 PM   #100
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There's nothing really to add, but it does make you wonder when you can't buy a kinderegg in the States because they are oh so dangerous, but you can just pick up an assault rifle.


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