Refugee/migrant crisis in Europe

The friendliest place on the web for anyone that follows U2.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.

anitram

Blue Crack Addict
Joined
Mar 13, 2001
Messages
18,918
Location
NY
Thought I'd open a thread as my feeling is that this has gotten very little coverage in the US media, slightly more in Canadian media due to the death of the little boy whose family had expressed a desire to emigrate here and a lot more in European media (understandably).

Another nation is now basically buckling under the weight of the humanity pouring through, mostly due to the way the Hungarians have dealt with the crisis.

Croatia staggers under influx of migrants | Toronto Star
 
Actually I disagree completely.

Some are refugees and others are economic migrants. It is a VERY important distinction, to me particularly as an ex-refugee. If you look at the national breakdown of people (and the % of men/women/children) who are entering these countries it should become plainly obvious to you that this is the reality.

There is nothing wrong with recognizing that there are two distinct groups of people moving through.
 
Can I just say how much I hate that we insist on referring to these people as migrants. They're not. They're refugees fleeing unimaginable suffering from war.

You are right. They are refuges (for the most part...there are group of the so-called 'economic migrants' hoping to sneak in) who are just looking for a way out. Seeing that I live in Germany, I have seen large numbers of them in my city. Government has had to put up temporary housing in order to deal with the number of refugees flooding into the country. As happy as I am to see that the country I live in has been very good in accepting and dealing with the issue, I am curious to see how this develops long term.
Needless to say, it is horrible what's been happening.
 
Actually I disagree completely.

Some are refugees and others are economic migrants. It is a VERY important distinction, to me particularly as an ex-refugee. If you look at the national breakdown of people (and the % of men/women/children) who are entering these countries it should become plainly obvious to you that this is the reality.

There is nothing wrong with recognizing that there are two distinct groups of people moving through.

But most of them, based on reports on the ground, are Syrian and Iraqi. These are not economic migrants. They're refugees.
 
But most of them, based on reports on the ground, are Syrian and Iraqi. These are not economic migrants. They're refugees.

Which reports?

http://www.bamf.de/SharedDocs/Anlag...BD0C7E4D5DC9C.1_cid368?__blob=publicationFile

This is interesting, it's the official German reports on asylum seekers to date. Take a look at the top 10 and I think you'll be shocked at how many are from non-conflict regions.

The numbers cited by Croatian media today are indicating anywhere from 70-80% are (young) men. I'm not sure how much you have interacted with refugees but that alone should tell you that it is an unrealistic number. Compare it with the numbers you see in the UNHCR camps in Lebanon, Jordan, Turkey and the composition is wildly different.

I don't think anyone can really pinpoint the exact % but frankly I think it hugely hurts refugees to be lumped in with economic migrants because as soon as you do that, and you realize that not all can be accommodated, you have accepted that refugees do not have a priority status (which they should).
 
Which reports?

http://www.bamf.de/SharedDocs/Anlag...BD0C7E4D5DC9C.1_cid368?__blob=publicationFile

This is interesting, it's the official German reports on asylum seekers to date. Take a look at the top 10 and I think you'll be shocked at how many are from non-conflict regions.

That is interesting. By my count refugees from Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Nigeria, Eritrea (all conflict regions to varying degrees) account for 96, 535 of the total (if I am reading the right column. I don't read German). That's not a small sample of the overall number. They're refugees.

I'm not discounting that there are economic migrants from places like Macedonia, Albania, and Serbia. But they're not the ones risking their lives crossing the Mediterranean, they're not the ones dying in the back of trucks in Austria, they're not the ones getting tear gassed at Hungarian border crossings.
 
There are true refugees escaping unimaginable horrors, there's no doubt. But the media is grossly biased in showing us suffering families while the reality is that the immigrants are not all refugees by a long stretch. A Syrian passport can be bought for $750. True refugees don't throw away the food they're given in Hungary and insist to march to Western Europe. There is a crisis going on and a large number of people are in dire need of help, but the situation is not so black and white.

In Switzerland for example, the majority of people crossing the border are young, male Eritreans. The number of Syrian families is tiny in comparison, but in the media we are shown the kids who suffer. While Eritrea isn't a stable country either, the controversy over the summer was that a good number of these immigrants went back to Eritrea to visit family. Now if you were fleeing your country, surely you cannot go back to visit?

The other thing to keep in mind is that while it is all over the news now, the war has been going on for years. How come all these refugees are on the road now? The fact is that European nations have been picking up migrants and refugees in the Mediterranean for many years. It's not a new phenomenon. Syrians also have been fleeing for years, why do we have a crisis now? That should make us think. And when the next awful thing happens, the media moves on and nobody talks about it anymore.

Like I said, there is a crisis, but it is not so simple.


Sent from my iPad using U2 Interference
 
Really interesting thread so far.

I listened to an extensive piece on NPR today about the Croatian camps. It was very difficult to listen to.
 
True refugees don't throw away the food they're given in Hungary and insist to march to Western Europe.

Maybe they're tired of living in filthy camps. Many refugees apply for asylum in richer nations like the US because of the opportunities. Just because they're refugees doesn't mean they don't have economic aspirations (for themselves and their children).
 
Maybe they're tired of living in filthy camps. Many refugees apply for asylum in richer nations like the US because of the opportunities. Just because they're refugees doesn't mean they don't have economic aspirations (for themselves and their children).


Out of curiosity what is your definition of an economic migrant?


Sent from my iPhone using U2 Interference
 
I had been very baffled there was no thread for this. We begrudgingly made a pissy humanitarian intake that was below what we could accommodate.
 
Angela Merkel and Germany are directly responsible for openly inviting hundreds of thousands of refugees without having any sort of a plan as to how to get them there. This has now created absolute chaos in very poor eastern European transit states who have been stuck with tens of thousands of people that they can't afford to house, feed, etc. Meanwhile all of a sudden Germany is a hell of a lot less happy to accept anyone and everyone pouring across. Absolutely appalling.

This is to say nothing of the other western nations that played significant roles in middle east destabilization and politics over the last 10-15 years and are now sitting on their hands, surrounded by oceans, hence this is not their problem.
 
I'll just throw it out there, but apparently, UN and other places are asking Japan to accept more refugees / migrants, and Japanese people hate to do so with great passion, which, to me, proves how evil, ignorant and conservative people can be.
 
I think Germany will eventually accept more refugees, just not at the current rate - for demographic reasons alone. They have the world's lowest fertility rate and the 2nd highest median age - 46 (versus 38 in the US).
 
I'll just throw it out there, but apparently, UN and other places are asking Japan to accept more refugees / migrants, and Japanese people hate to do so with great passion, which, to me, proves how evil, ignorant and conservative people can be.

Holy shit, where do they expect Japan to put them?!

tumblr_lhvwnd7VsL1qhe2z4o1_1280.png


And in case you were thinking, why not the blue areas?

Shaded-Relief-Map-Japan-659779.jpg
 
Japan is also structurally very anti-immigrant and has been that way forever, so the odds of integration and normal life in that society are very low. Kind of strange to even be invoking them to be honest.

Total chaos in the Balkans. Slovenia is tear gassing the people trying to cross into the country from Croatia. In Croatia, a fight erupted at a train station between Syrians and Afghans who threw rocks at each other. Croatia is meanwhile bussing thousands to Hungary, which is in turn bussing them to Austria. Meanwhile a whole new wave appears to be ready to cross from Turkey to Greece. In Greece itself, riot police are beating back the refugee/migrant masses on Lesbos. Something is going to give here very soon.
 
Last edited:
And the ones that will suffer will be the actual refugees. By dangling that open borders/free for all carrot, they have created an unimaginable chaos. This is exactly why it's so important to make that distinction of refugee and migrant.




Sent from my iPhone using U2 Interference
 
And the ones that will suffer will be the actual refugees. By dangling that open borders/free for all carrot, they have created an unimaginable chaos. This is exactly why it's so important to make that distinction of refugee and migrant.

:up:
 
Japan is also structurally very anti-immigrant and has been that way forever, so the odds of integration and normal life in that society are very low. Kind of strange to even be invoking them to be honest.

I was just waiting for the liberation in my country, that's all. it's true that some people are really desperate to contain the situation
 
seriously, Hungary ought to be kicked out of the EU for its disgusting response
 
And the ones that will suffer will be the actual refugees. By dangling that open borders/free for all carrot, they have created an unimaginable chaos. This is exactly why it's so important to make that distinction of refugee and migrant.




Sent from my iPhone using U2 Interference

"dangling the open borders/free for all carrot" is a little trite...

humans have been on the move since time began, influx of refugees is a result of war and instability...

one of the main factors in this crisis is the criminalization of migration brought in by the 2001 EU directive penalizing carriers

EUR-Lex - l33139 - EN - EUR-Lex

this immediately led to the original smuggler/sea-crossing problem - i have seen documentary footage of coastguards on the Med shooting at migrant boats from more than 10 years ago, before the media finally caught up with the story...

basically, re. refugees, it's our moral duty to help - there needs to be a global response, by the EU, other countries AND the middle east

"love your neighbour as you love yourself" has never been so appropriate
 
I think Germany will eventually accept more refugees, just not at the current rate - for demographic reasons alone. They have the world's lowest fertility rate and the 2nd highest median age - 46 (versus 38 in the US).

i read that Germany actually needs an additional workforce of 450 000 per year to sustain itself - skilled refugees will be a huge asset to the economy
 
seriously, Hungary ought to be kicked out of the EU for its disgusting response

I'm not sure about getting kicked out of the EU (not that I have a high opinion of it anyway), but any progressively minded person should be concerned about the current Hungarian regime - and I'm not just talking about their stance on the refugee crisis alone.
 
I'm not sure about getting kicked out of the EU (not that I have a high opinion of it anyway), but any progressively minded person should be concerned about the current Hungarian regime - and I'm not just talking about their stance on the refugee crisis alone.

very true Vlad :up:
 
If Germany wants them they should just send a fleet of Lufthansa planes to Izmir, Turkey and airlift them. Same goes for other countries.


Sent from my iPhone using U2 Interference
 
$64,000 question - I'll be in Germany for two eeeks, culminating in the 2 shows in Cologne. Is there something I can do to help out while there?

Sent from my SPH-L720T using U2 Interference mobile app
 
If Germany wants them they should just send a fleet of Lufthansa planes to Izmir, Turkey and airlift them. Same goes for other countries.

This is sort of the point, isn't it?

Germany and Sweden in particular have been openly inviting hundreds of thousands of people but have done nothing to actually assist them in getting there. The burden has instead been placed on nations which are small, poor and in many instances recently wartorn themselves.

And let's not kid ourselves, if there were 200,000 people, of which are mostly young men who happen to be Muslim, passing through the US or Canada or the UK or Australia this summer largely without documentation, imagine what the response would be. Instead we can all sit on our high horse in judgment.
 
Back
Top Bottom