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Old 12-23-2014, 11:32 AM   #621
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Originally Posted by bigjohn2441 View Post
I seriously doubt he got shot for doing nothing, something had to escalate it.

This brings up another point that, like the shooting the leg thing, is a common misconception and that is that if an officer shoots an "unarmed" person that he his somehow automatically in the wrong.

There is no way for a cop to know the full capabilities of someone they are dealing with. There are plenty of strong, skilled people that could easily kill someone with their bare hands. Also, think about this, the person may be unarmed but the COP isn't. This works for and against the cop. If a cop gets in a fight with someone, all it takes is 1 good punch and the officer could be out cold, and his pistol for the taking. Also, what if the cop is fighting with someone and he knows he only has 5 seconds left before physical exhaustion sets in?


Let's say theres a 5'10" 150 lbs cop that just responded to a murder and the suspect who is 6'5 250 lbs and was still there and he walks towards the cop clenching his fists saying "I'm gonna kill you too!" The cop draws and orders him to stop or he'll shoot. The suspect is still coming and is 10 feet from the cop. What does the cop do? Run away and let the murderer get away, or shoot?

Also, believe it or not teasers and pepper spray do not work on everyone, and if a physical confrontation goes on too long, the officer may have no other choice.
The cop was walking with his gun out (against the rules) and was not supposed to be on high rise duty. And he called his union rep before an ambulance. Guy's a motherfucker.
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Old 12-23-2014, 11:37 AM   #622
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Here's a list of the 10 most dangerous jobs in America. Spoiler: being a cop isn't on the list.

The 10 Deadliest Jobs:
1. Logging workers
2. Fishers and related fishing workers
3. Aircraft pilot and flight engineers
4. Roofers
5. Structural iron and steel workers
6. Refuse and recyclable material collectors
7. Electrical power-line installers and repairers
8. Drivers/sales workers and truck drivers
9. Farmers, ranchers, and other agricultural managers
10. Construction laborers


America's 10 Deadliest Jobs - Forbes


Top 10 Most Dangerous Jobs in the Country: Police Officer is NOT on the List | The Free Thought Project


"What exactly is more dangerous than being a cop? For starters, a trash collector is twice as likely to die on the job versus a cop, fishing is 7 times more dangerous than being a cop, and logging workers, nearly 9 times more dangerous.
Here are occupations more dangerous than being a police officer. Number of deaths per 100,000 employed:
  1. Logging workers: 127.8
  2. Fishermen: 117.0
  3. Aircraft pilots: 53.4
  4. Roofers: 40.5
  5. Garbage collectors: 36.8
  6. Electrical power line installation/repair: 29.8
  7. Truck drivers: 22.8
  8. Oil and gas extraction: 21.9
  9. Farmers and ranchers: 21.3
  10. Construction workers: 17.4

The majority of police deaths are not as a result of violence in the line of duty either, most have occurred accidentally rather than feloniously. Most police officers die, not in some heroic high speed pursuit of a child murderer, but in routine traffic accidents."
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Old 12-23-2014, 05:42 PM   #623
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Here's a hypothetical scenario for you:

Your grandpa is standing outside a mart, possibly selling individual cigarettes. He is non-violent, non-confrontational, and non-threatening. Cops arrive to arrest him, and one of the cops uses an illegal choke hold to subdue him, a choke hold that the coroner determines was enough of a contributing factor in your grandpa's death that the cause of death is listed as homicide.

Would you be justifiably upset if the grand jury refused to press charges against a cop who contributed to your grandpa's death with the use of an illegal choke hold?
Well they are both dead already, but the answer is Yes. Happy?

I've never defended that particular incident which you are alluding to. I've seen the video and the cop's choke hold was inexcuseable. IMO he should at MINIMUM have lost his job.

I am not a police cheerleader like you may think. I think a LOT of things that happen in law enforcement today are bullshit, and this is coming from someone IN law enforcement. I'm simply presenting the other side of the coin which nobody else would ever bring up on this forum.

Care to answer mine now?
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Old 12-23-2014, 05:54 PM   #624
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Originally Posted by Hollow Island View Post
Here's a list of the 10 most dangerous jobs in America. Spoiler: being a cop isn't on the list.

The 10 Deadliest Jobs:
1. Logging workers
2. Fishers and related fishing workers
3. Aircraft pilot and flight engineers
4. Roofers
5. Structural iron and steel workers
6. Refuse and recyclable material collectors
7. Electrical power-line installers and repairers
8. Drivers/sales workers and truck drivers
9. Farmers, ranchers, and other agricultural managers
10. Construction laborers


America's 10 Deadliest Jobs - Forbes


Top 10 Most Dangerous Jobs in the Country: Police Officer is NOT on the List | The Free Thought Project


"What exactly is more dangerous than being a cop? For starters, a trash collector is twice as likely to die on the job versus a cop, fishing is 7 times more dangerous than being a cop, and logging workers, nearly 9 times more dangerous.
Here are occupations more dangerous than being a police officer. Number of deaths per 100,000 employed:
  1. Logging workers: 127.8
  2. Fishermen: 117.0
  3. Aircraft pilots: 53.4
  4. Roofers: 40.5
  5. Garbage collectors: 36.8
  6. Electrical power line installation/repair: 29.8
  7. Truck drivers: 22.8
  8. Oil and gas extraction: 21.9
  9. Farmers and ranchers: 21.3
  10. Construction workers: 17.4

The majority of police deaths are not as a result of violence in the line of duty either, most have occurred accidentally rather than feloniously. Most police officers die, not in some heroic high speed pursuit of a child murderer, but in routine traffic accidents."
Again, your "statistics" are flawed. Do they take into account anything other than fatalities? What about fights, injuries, stabbings, non fatal shootings, car crashes, being run over by a car while doing a traffic stop, etc etc etc.

My argument isn't that being a cop is the MOST dangerous job, but rather it is more dangerous than the naysayers on here (with no law enforcement experience, i might add) that seem to think its "no different than any other job", like a walmart greeter for instance.
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Old 12-23-2014, 06:00 PM   #625
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Not advocating police brutality, but the tone of the previous page towards your average police officer was really disturbing. Most of my family works in the service industry and their lives are constantly affected by it.

As was mentioned, not quite so gracefully, by YBORCITY, it's not just fatalities that are an issue in the field.

I realize these situations are horrible, but I hate the idea, as well, that what police officers do for us, in general, is some kind of no big deal thing, either.
Great post
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Old 12-23-2014, 06:11 PM   #626
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Again, your "statistics" are flawed. Do they take into account anything other than fatalities? What about fights, injuries, stabbings, non fatal shootings, car crashes, being run over by a car while doing a traffic stop, etc etc etc.

My argument isn't that being a cop is the MOST dangerous job, but rather it is more dangerous than the naysayers on here (with no law enforcement experience, i might add) that seem to think its "no different than any other job", like a walmart greeter for instance.

The other job death statistics don't take into account injuries, so it's likely that if you included injuries in all the statistics, they would still be similar to the death statistics.

You can't just say that statistics are flawed just because they don't fit into your preconceived notions. I was conservative until I started to look at statistics that made me reconsider my firmly held beliefs.


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Old 12-23-2014, 06:19 PM   #627
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I've never defended that particular incident which you are alluding to. I've seen the video and the cop's choke hold was inexcuseable. IMO he should at MINIMUM have lost his job.
Glad we're in agreement here. And though it's true you've never defended that particular incident, your only commentary on it so far is to only highlight protestors who were allegedly calling for violence against cops.

Quote:
A Fox affiliate in Baltimore aired a segment on Sunday showing footage from a "Justice For All" demonstration in Washington, D.C. in which it edited a chant to sound like protestors were shouting "kill a cop."

"At this rally in Washington, D.C. protestors chanted, 'we won't stop, we can't stop, so kill a cop,'" the WBFF broadcast said.

But the full footage, flagged by Gawker on Monday via C-SPAN, revealed that the chant was "we won't stop, we can't stop, 'til killer cops are in cell blocks."

Quote:
Care to answer mine now?
Which one? What should a cop do if a guy is charging at him, ignoring orders to stop and screaming that he's going to kill him? In that instance, yes, I believe lethal force would be justified.

I think the problem is that, like has been noted upthread, there have been plenty of instances lately where police have responded with lethal force, despite suspects who did not themselves escalate the situation. I totally acknowledge that law enforcement is a difficult and dangerous job, but it seems that there are too many instances where police tactics seem tragically out of step with a force that is supposed to protect and serve its citizens.
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Old 12-24-2014, 12:49 AM   #628
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Originally Posted by bono_212 View Post
Not advocating police brutality, but the tone of the previous page towards your average police officer was really disturbing. Most of my family works in the service industry and their lives are constantly affected by it.

As was mentioned, not quite so gracefully, by YBORCITY, it's not just fatalities that are an issue in the field.

I realize these situations are horrible, but I hate the idea, as well, that what police officers do for us, in general, is some kind of no big deal thing, either.

up: Best post of the thread.


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Old 12-24-2014, 12:51 AM   #629
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The other job death statistics don't take into account injuries, so it's likely that if you included injuries in all the statistics, they would still be similar to the death statistics.

You can't just say that statistics are flawed just because they don't fit into your preconceived notions. I was conservative until I started to look at statistics that made me reconsider my firmly held beliefs.
Well, considering i have over 6 years law enforcement experience, id like to think they are a little more than "preconceived notions."

Again, my argument is not that LE is the #1 most dangerous job, or even in the top 10. But that it is not the simply "basically no dangerous that most any other job", as some have said on here.

How many of those jobs on the top 10 are they likely to get in fights, car crashes, lethal force incidents, shootings, encounter violent and dangerous criminals, and work often alone in potentially dangerous situations? Also, think about the physical and mental toll it takes on a cop and imagine all the things they will have seen during their career that most people dont have to see. Murder scenes, fatal car wrecks, responding to suicide calls, etc etc. My dad was a local cop and he told me a story about when he responded to a gunshot at a house. They entered and found a guy sitting in a chair that blew his head off with a shotgun and his brains were dripping off the ceiling. Another time they found someone's head in the woods.

So no, I dont thing being a cop is "basically like any other job."
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Old 12-25-2014, 12:04 AM   #630
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Old 12-26-2014, 01:39 AM   #631
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Mike Rowe
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Hello Mr. Mike Rowe. I'm a big fan and also happen to work in the lower Haight as well as live in Alameda. I have to ask with everything that is going on in Ferguson, how do you feel about the protests in SF as well as the looting/rioting in downtown Oakland?

Hi Meghan

Last week, those very protests blocked off one of the major arteries, and as a result, I was 90 minutes late to a holiday dinner in Alameda. I apologized for my tardiness, and was told by my hostess not to give it a second thought. “It’s a small price to pay,” she said, “given all that’s at stake.” Another guest, already well into the eggnog, wondered aloud if a heart attack victim waiting for an ambulance stuck in traffic might hold a different view?

Within moments, everyone was talking about Garner and Brown, and the conversation got very political very quickly. A liberal guest said, “Look, I wasn’t there, but it seems pretty clear that both men would still be alive had they been white.” A conservative guest replied, “I wasn’t there either, but it seems pretty clear that both men would still be alive if they hadn’t resisted arrest.”

This annoyed the liberal, who asked the conservative why Republicans wanted a “police state.” This annoyed the conservative, who asked the liberal why Democrats wanted “total anarchy.” Things continued to escalate, and within moments, fingers were pointing, veins were bulging, and logical fallacies were filling the air. Ho! ho! ho!

For once, I kept my mouth shut and listened as a roomful of decent people tore each others throats out. It was remarkable, because no one disagreed on the big points. No one disagreed that black lives mattered just as much as white lives. No one disputed that racial bias in law enforcement should be exposed and eliminated. In fact, no one disagreed about the basic facts surrounding each case. The breakdown happened over relevance and context.

My conservative friends were focused on the fact that both men died while resisting arrest, and were therefor responsible for their own demise. They wanted to discuss the killings in light of the incredible risk that all police officers agree to assume.

My liberal friends were focused on the fact that both men were unarmed, and were therefor victims of excessive force. They wanted to discuss the killings in the context of historical trends that suggest bias plays a recurring role in the way cops treat minorities.

By dessert, it was clear that both sides wanted law and order. But the conservatives were convinced that order is only possible when citizens treat cops with respect. Liberals, on the other hand, were arguing that order can only occur when cops treat everyone the same. And round and round we went. The chicken and the egg.

Later, on the drive home, I called a friend of mine back in Baltimore. He’s black, successful, and hard-working. He also resents the way he’s gotten swept into the zeitgeist of Ferguson. In his words, “I’m a pawn in someone else’s agenda, and I’m sick of it. I know what bias looks like in my life. I'm tired of being represented by two petty criminals who died resisting arrest.”

I hadn't thought about it like that, but he's got a point. The vast majority of black Americans have never broken the law. And yet, millions of lives are now entwined with the death of Brown and Garner. That's not fair, but it's hardly breaking news. Minorities are constantly stereotyped and the impression lingers. Looters and arsonists run amok, and Black America suffers the association. Now I'm trying to get my head around the fact that two cops are dead in Brooklyn, assassinated by a lunatic in “retaliation” for Ferguson and Staten Island. Unbelievable.

How much worse can it get for the millions of law-abiding minorities, struggling to be seen as individuals? How much worse can it get for the thousands of honest cops, trying to protect a citizenry that doesn't seem to appreciate their daily sacrifice?

A few days ago, people were marching in the streets, literally calling for the execution of police. (“What do we want? Dead Cops!”) Others are standing by today, waiting to lionize the assassins who answer the call. These are not the champions of justice; these are the enemies of civilization, and it’s up to sensible people on both sides of the aisle to close ranks and shout them down. If we want to live in a nation of laws, we need to support the humans sworn to uphold them. They’re a lot of really great cops out there who have promised to do that very thing, including the one in my family. We’d be screwed without them.

To answer your question Meghan, I support peaceful protests, and I’m all for rooting out bad cops. But let’s not stop there. If we're serious about saving lives, and eliminating the confrontations that lead to the demise of Garner and Brown, let’s also condemn the stupidity that leads so many Americans to resist arrest. I don't care if you're white, black, red, periwinkle, burnt umber, or chartreuse - resisting arrest is not a right, it’s a crime. And it's never a good idea.

Mike

PS. In lighter news, it's come to my attention that CNN will attempt to air a new episode of SGDI, tonight at 9pm Eastern. (Assuming we can get through a whole day without a riot, an earthquake, a terrorist attack, and Ebola outbreak, or a Zombie Apocalypse.)

Mike
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Old 12-29-2014, 07:25 PM   #632
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Woman in body armor drove around Chattanooga shooting at people | Local News | Times Free Press

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She pointed her firearm at an officer, but was taken into custody without incident or injury, the release stated.
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Old 12-29-2014, 09:42 PM   #633
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I guess police only shoot black males that point guns at them, right?

Either that or they figured since she was a woman she couldn't shoot for shit
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Old 12-29-2014, 10:43 PM   #634
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I guess police only shoot black males that point guns at them, right?

Either that or they figured since she was a woman she couldn't shoot for shit


Wait, no, misogynistic comments are the opposite of funny.
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Old 12-29-2014, 10:56 PM   #635
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Only if you're an uptight liberal with no sense of humor.

Dont take that the wrong way.

And I'm not misogynistic, i love pussy!
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Old 12-29-2014, 11:28 PM   #636
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.


yeah, but no. he's doing the mindless equivocation thing -- "liberals are just like conservatives, and i'm the honest broker!"

the party sounds totally made up, as does his black friend in Baltimore.

does he also think Eric Garner was "resisting arrest"?
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Old 12-29-2014, 11:51 PM   #637
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Originally Posted by Hollow Island View Post
Here's a list of the 10 most dangerous jobs in America. Spoiler: being a cop isn't on the list.

The 10 Deadliest Jobs:
1. Logging workers
2. Fishers and related fishing workers
3. Aircraft pilot and flight engineers
4. Roofers
5. Structural iron and steel workers
6. Refuse and recyclable material collectors
7. Electrical power-line installers and repairers
8. Drivers/sales workers and truck drivers
9. Farmers, ranchers, and other agricultural managers
10. Construction laborers


America's 10 Deadliest Jobs - Forbes


Top 10 Most Dangerous Jobs in the Country: Police Officer is NOT on the List | The Free Thought Project


"What exactly is more dangerous than being a cop? For starters, a trash collector is twice as likely to die on the job versus a cop, fishing is 7 times more dangerous than being a cop, and logging workers, nearly 9 times more dangerous.
Here are occupations more dangerous than being a police officer. Number of deaths per 100,000 employed:
  1. Logging workers: 127.8
  2. Fishermen: 117.0
  3. Aircraft pilots: 53.4
  4. Roofers: 40.5
  5. Garbage collectors: 36.8
  6. Electrical power line installation/repair: 29.8
  7. Truck drivers: 22.8
  8. Oil and gas extraction: 21.9
  9. Farmers and ranchers: 21.3
  10. Construction workers: 17.4

The majority of police deaths are not as a result of violence in the line of duty either, most have occurred accidentally rather than feloniously. Most police officers die, not in some heroic high speed pursuit of a child murderer, but in routine traffic accidents."
My dad has been a roofer his entire adult life. Worked up to the point where he owned his own company. I worked for him, as a roofer, many moons ago; commercial jobs, big buildings.

Hard, demanding, exhausting, and yes, dangerous work.

But anybody who thinks roofing is more dangerous than being a police officer is an idiot.

There are plenty of societal issues to pick apart over what's going on these days. Try to stick with one that makes sense.
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Old 12-30-2014, 02:35 PM   #638
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And I'm not misogynistic, i love pussy!
No one cares about your boner.
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Old 12-30-2014, 02:53 PM   #639
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Only if you're an uptight liberal with no sense of humor.

Dont take that the wrong way.

And I'm not misogynistic, i love pussy!
It seems impossible for you to interact with this forum in a mature way. That's a problem, and one I'm tired of addressing.
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Old 12-31-2014, 12:29 AM   #640
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It seems impossible for you to interact with this forum in a mature way. That's a problem, and one I'm tired of addressing.
What? I cant say "liberal" now either?

You know what, fuck you and the rest of you snobby, uptight, LIBTARD cunts.

Piss on this fucking forum.
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