Racist Police Response to Ferguson Protests

[cobl04]

Originally Posted by AEON

You know - it may serve this forum better to have a more politically neutral mod. Unless the intention is for this forum to be a backslapping Liberal circle-jerk. If that IS the intention, you are succeeding quite well. That is also why it is dying a slow (but accelerating) death.

A few years back in FYM - debate across the political spectrum was encouraged (yet, it was never exactly equal - but this is a U2 website - so Left-leaning is expected). Now, it seems you've bullied/bored away any dissenting (i.e. - non-Liberal) opinions.

So you're disputing the facts in the link Diemen posted?

[AEON]

Originally Posted by Salome

Would Diemen be a better mod for not pointing us to this twitter account?

Diemen would be a better mod in a forum such as this for encouraging multiple points of view - not squashing them.

In my view - we should NOT know a mod's political leanings. Their only input is to summarize the multiple POV - not pick one. This forum, at least in name, is about an OPEN discussion of the controversial issues. The mod should request/verify sources, maintain a level of civility, and defend those that may have a "minority" (within the forum) opinion.

Again, if the goal of the forum is to weed out non-Liberal opinions, you are succeeding fantastically (even though participation is dropping).

[AEON]

Originally Posted by cobl04

So you're disputing the facts in the link Diemen posted?

I don't think it is Diemen's role as a mod in a forum such as this to participate in this manner.

[AEON]

Originally Posted by Salome

I would hope a conservative mod would also have the decency to point toward FACTS.
Even when they might not suit his/her own political agenda.

Call me crazy.

We ALL think we have FACTS on our side. That is not unique to being a Liberal.

[Salome]

Originally Posted by AEON

I don't think it is Diemen's role as a mod in a forum such as this to participate in this manner.

Ah, now I understand why we have a different opinion on this:
you're wrong

[AEON]

Originally Posted by Salome

Ah, now I understand why we have a different opinion on this:
you're wrong

The theme of the forum....

[Salome]

No, the theme here is you pretending to be the voice of reason, trying to show the other side of the argument and then blowing your top at a mod when he points out something you don't want to hear.

So to repeat cobl's questions:

Originally Posted by cobl04

So you're disputing the facts in the link Diemen posted?

[cobl04]

Originally Posted by AEON

I don't think it is Diemen's role as a mod in a forum such as this to participate in this manner.

Dude he's a volunteer with a life, it's not like he gets paid to do this. He can post as he likes. Never have I seen him post in an inflammatory way. When it becomes a pile-on he calls us on the left out. When "liberals" (I hate using that term because our conservative govt is called Liberal) start getting abusive, he calls them out.

And the post that made you suggest this forum should have another mod was completely innocuous. I don't see what your fuss about it is. He was doing exactly what you were talking about, he provided a link with some facts.

If you think the facts in that link are wrong, then that's another story.

[AEON]

Originally Posted by cobl04

And the post that made you suggest this forum should have another mod was completely innocuous.

1) I like Diemen. I think the forum would be better served if Diemen was more neutral.

2) I have no frickin' idea who Shaun King is - and I have no way to know/verify many of his claims. I can only use what I see on the publicly accessible web. I've posted links to the sources I've used. I have also stated my opinion on the case IS NOT set in stone.

3) I think that FYM was better with more conservatives in it. It was dynamic, controversial, heated, entertaining - but more importantly, educational.

4) It was't that particular post - it was the number of posts by Diemen in this thread that only supported one-side of the argument. Let us regular users duke it out. When the mods chime in - it feels like the referee is literally wearing the uniform of the opposing team.

[AEON]

Originally Posted by Salome

pretending to be the voice of reason,

That's at least some cred - I'll take it.

[cobl04]

Originally Posted by AEON

1) I like Diemen. I think the forum would be better served if Diemen was more neutral.

2) I have no frickin' idea who Shaun King is - and I have no way to know/verify many of his claims. I can only use what I see on the publicly accessible web. I've posted links to the sources I've used. I have also stated my opinion on the case IS NOT set in stone.

3) I think that FYM was better with more conservatives in it. It was dynamic, controversial, heated, entertaining - but more importantly, educational.

4) It was't that particular post - it was the number of posts by Diemen in this thread that only supported one-side of the argument. Let us regular users duke it out.

1, fair, I guess, but again, mods don't get paid, and whilst it's obvious to which side he leans I think he is the most measured of any of us

2, I don't know either, which is why I asked Diemen who he was. I'd like to know more. From what I can gather he is the organiser of a popular change.org petition campaigning against police brutality.

3, totally agree

4, he's still pretty measured I'd say, and again, mod work is not a job...

[AEON]

Another thought is to allow/recruit some centrist and conservative leaning mods...

[AEON]

Tonight it was verified within my own heart I am not a racist - because I LOVE Captain Ron Johnson!

[Axver]

Originally Posted by AEON

I don't think it is Diemen's role as a mod in a forum such as this to participate in this manner.

You do realise he is capable of posting in a personal capacity sometimes and in a mod capacity in others? I thought it was pretty clear when he was doing one or the other. This forum would be much the worse if he did not post his personal opinions - he is one of our more reasoned and articulate individuals.

Originally Posted by AEON

3) I think that FYM was better with more conservatives in it. It was dynamic, controversial, heated, entertaining - but more importantly, educational.

I don't recall us having many genuine, classic conservatives - just a bunch of extreme right nutbags who provoked unproductive flame wars.

Anyway, this forum has a fair few people who are only "liberal" in a US sense, and would be centre-right anywhere else. We've got quite a spectrum from the centre-right through to communists. The idea of it being homogeneous seems to only be in the minds of a few on the US far right who can't tell the difference between the centre-left, social democrats, communists, etc.

[AEON]

Originally Posted by Axver

You do realise he is capable of posting in a personal capacity sometimes and in a mod capacity in others?

I have no way of knowing that.

Originally Posted by Axver

I thought it was pretty clear when he was doing one or the other. This forum would be much the worse if he did not post his personal opinions - he is one of our more reasoned and articulate individuals.

Then allow other Right/Center-leaning mods to add balance.

Originally Posted by Axver

I don't recall us having many genuine, classic conservatives - just a bunch of extreme right nutbags who provoked unproductive flame wars.

That is not true. In fact, I remember getting a PM from YOU about 10 years ago encouraging me to stand my ground on gay marriage (I was a Republican then - I am a Dislike-All-Parties-Party now). No worries - back then, as an obvious Conservative, I received numerous PMs and emails encouraging me in PRIVATE because of the way users were treated in PUBLIC in this forum.

Originally Posted by Axver

Anyway, this forum has a fair few people who are only "liberal" in a US sense,

Few is the keyword. The forum is dying. I'm sure some DBA out there can get us the numbers...

Originally Posted by Axver

and would be centre-right anywhere else. We've got quite a spectrum from the centre-right through to communists. The idea of it being homogeneous seems to only be in the minds of a few on the US far right who can't tell the difference between the centre-left, social democrats, communists, etc.

I am hardly far-right. Yet, that doesn't matter. In forums like this - what matters is debate and discussion (unless you simply love agreement on a continual basis. Me - I love controversial items. I want to debate - to learn - to change my mind if necessary). That is why I loved this forum a decade ago. Now, with it's half dozen back-patting Liberals, FYM is only exciting when someone like me breaks up the circle-jerk with the POSSIBILITY there MAY be another point of view...

[Salome]

Originally Posted by AEON

Then allow other Right/Center-leaning mods to add balance.

This is already allowed. As far as I know there are no rules preventing anyone Right Wing to become a mod.
However, to add a mod to FYM just because he/she is right wing is a ridiculous notion.
Since you don't want mods to participate to the discussion (apparently), I also don't see what good it'll do.

I'm confused what point you're trying to make apart from trying to divert attention of the content in the link Diemen posted.

[cobl04]

Originally Posted by AEON

That is not true. In fact, I remember getting a PM from YOU about 10 years ago encouraging me to stand my ground on gay marriage (I was a Republican then - I am a Dislike-All-Parties-Party now).

Axver you just got rekt m8

[AEON]

Originally Posted by Salome

This is already allowed. As far as I know there are no rules preventing anyone Right Wing to become a mod.

Awesome - who are they?

Originally Posted by Salome

However, to add a mod to FYM just because he/she is right wing is a ridiculous notion.

Why? If they abuse the role - fire them. What's the risk?

Originally Posted by Salome

Since you don't want mods to participate to the discussion (apparently), I also don't see what good it'll do.

To clarify - if mods ARE EXPECTED TO participate in the discussion, then a more balanced team of mods is necessary for the health of the forum.

Originally Posted by Salome

I'm confused what point you're trying to make apart from trying to divert attention of the content in the link Diemen posted.

I already addressed that above. I have no clue who this Shaun King is and no way of verifying/discrediting many of his claims. I only have access to public information available on the web. This man makes claims with no sources.

[Axver]

Originally Posted by AEON

I have no way of knowing that.

You're smarter than that. I don't mean to be blunt, but if you can't tell when somebody is posting their personal opinion and when they are moderating a thread, I would suggest working on your reading comprehension.

That is not true. In fact, I remember getting a PM from YOU about 10 years ago encouraging me to stand my ground on gay marriage (I was a Republican then - I am a Dislike-All-Parties-Party now). No worries - back then, as an obvious Conservative, I received numerous PMs and emails encouraging me in PRIVATE because of the way users were treated in PUBLIC in this forum.

Let's not drag into this discussion all the stupid shit I said a whole decade ago during my weird religious phase or we'll be here all night. All week if it comes complete with the Axver Liked U2 Too Much Archives.

And let's be honest, "I got lots of PMs!" is never a good defence, no matter how true it sometimes is. I'm not suggesting I doubt you; it's just a poor Internet debating technique.

Few is the keyword. The forum is dying. I'm sure some DBA out there can get us the numbers...

I am hardly far-right. Yet, that doesn't matter. In forums like this - what matters is debate and discussion (unless you simply love agreement on a continual basis. Me - I love controversial items. I want to debate - to learn - to change my mind if necessary). That is why I loved this forum a decade ago. Now, with it's half dozen back-patting Liberals, FYM is only exciting when someone like me breaks up the circle-jerk with the POSSIBILITY there MAY be another point of view...

I don't want to drag this too far off-topic, but I don't think the problem is the lack of far-right nutters (I didn't think you were one, though your behaviour in this thread is making me wonder - partly because of the positions you are arguing and partly because of how you are doing so). I think the problem is that this forum is really, really, really Americentric, and US political debate seems to only function at present if it is hyper-polarised. It's not really much of a global politics forum, is it? Even when threads start for events outside the US, there is a habit of it coming back to some US dispute because most posters are from the US. I seem to recall there was a bit more on the global politics front some years ago but they tended to get lost amidst all the US threads and many international posters drifted away - and now that things are a bit quieter, their absence is really obvious.

[cobl04]

The Aussie thread is a great example. Majority of posting is me, Axver, Vkad, Kieran and Alisaura - we are all left of centre (except for Vlad, who is so far from the centre mentioning it is redundant), and yet we manage to have really interesting, robust debates on a whole range of topics. I wish FYM was more like it