Racist Police Response to Ferguson Protests

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I feel like the should just be compulsory of all police departments...I thought it was, honestly.
 
Following up on the dash cam/body camera thing - of course it isn't just as simple as that:

Even When Police Do Wear Cameras, Don't Count on Seeing the Footage - CityLab

Here in San Diego, our scandal-plagued police department has begun outfitting some officers with body cameras, and the City Council has approved a plan to roll out hundreds more.

Officers wearing the cameras were present during at least two shootings earlier this year. Yet we're still not any closer to knowing what happened in those chaotic moments—whether the perpetrators can be easily identified, what kind of interactions the officers had with those present, nothing.

That's because the department claims the footage, which is captured by devices financed by city taxpayers and worn by officers on the public payroll, aren't public records. Our newsroom's request for footage from the shootings under the California Public Records Act was denied.

Once footage becomes part of an investigation, the department says it doesn't have to release them. SDPD also said during the pilot phase of the camera program that it doesn't even have to release footage from the cameras after an investigation wraps.
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Diemen said:
Following up on the dash cam/body camera thing - of course it isn't just as simple as that:

Even When Police Do Wear Cameras, Don't Count on Seeing the Footage - CityLab
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Well, I think that in this particular case - with the Feds getting involved - it still would have made a difference.

I agree we should not only require these devices on all uniformed police (I can understand not requiring these for undercover agents) - but also insist that anything they record be public record. This is best for the citizens AS WELL AS the police.
 
Oh yeah, I'm quite sure Wilson was injured by the door coming back and hitting him, which is what caused him to pull the gun in the first place. The door bouncing back after it hit Brown was probably interpreted by Wilson as an attack even though he hit Brown with it in the first place. That's what several eyewits said, that the gunshot fired in the car was Wilson pulling the gun and trying to shoot Brown after the door hit him. That gun shot is likely what caused Brown (and the other guy whose name eludes me) to run in the first place.
 
PhilsFan said:
Oh yeah, I'm quite sure Wilson was injured by the door coming back and hitting him, which is what caused him to pull the gun in the first place. The door bouncing back after it hit Brown was probably interpreted by Wilson as an attack even though he hit Brown with it in the first place. That's what several eyewits said, that the gunshot fired in the car was Wilson pulling the gun and trying to shoot Brown after the door hit him. That gun shot is likely what caused Brown (and the other guy whose name eludes me) to run in the first place.
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At this point - I would say this is feasible. Either the door bounced back or it was slammed back. It will probably be difficult to determine which.

Of course - I guess none of that really matters until we find out this:

Did Michael charge the officer after all this went down? If not, Darren Wilson is more than likely guilty of anything from excessive use force to murder. I'm sure a jury would take injuries into consideration when determining which charges (there will be multiple if this goes to trial) in which to find the officer guilty. I think most people would agree that unless Michael Brown charged Darren Wilson - Darren Wilson is guilty of some degree of murder. At least I do.

Ironically, had all the shots been from behind - the officer was in better standing (legally) with the Fleeing Felon law.
 
The autopsy shows that he had his hands up because he got shot in the palm, which would be an incredibly weird way to charge Wilson.
 
PhilsFan said:
The autopsy shows that he had his hands up because he got shot in the palm, which would be an incredibly weird way to charge Wilson.
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That could also potentially be the shot that was fired in the squad car. Maybe Brown put his hand up as a last second protective move when he saw Wilson going for his gun, and seeing that he got hit is what made him turn and run?

It's really a shame that all we have is speculation at this point.
 
Diemen said:
That could also potentially be the shot that was fired in the squad car. Maybe Brown put his hand up as a last second protective move when he saw Wilson going for his gun, and seeing that he got hit is what made him turn and run?

It's really a shame that all we have is speculation at this point.
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I don't think many analysts thought the initial autopsies confirmed/denied much of anything. At this point, Michael Brown could have been shot surrendering, standing still, or charging. The head shots could have occurred on the ground or as he was falling.

About the only theory "debunked" was that he was shot in the back (as one eye witness told the news).
 
Diemen said:
It's really a shame that all we have is speculation at this point.
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I agree. And what is more shameful was that the press initially crucified the officer based on nothing but speculation - fueling the already tense situation in Ferguson.

That is why I am starting to appreciate sites like reddit when it comes to news. The links come in from either a liberal/conservative/neutral news source and discussion ensues. There are some crazy comments on the extreme edges of the spectrum - but most of the them are reasonable debates that tend to flush out the heart of the story.

I think it's obvious - we can no longer trust most media to give us an unbiased account of the facts. We simply need to take in as much as we can from different sources and try to see which bits overlap (thus making them likely true).
 
AEON said:
About the only theory "debunked" was that he was shot in the back (as one eye witness told the news).
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True, there were no gunshots to his back, but there was a shot that entered the underside of his arm, which could have happened as he was running away, or with his hands up, but would be less likely to have happened if he was charging.
 
AEON said:
That is why I am starting to appreciate sites like reddit when it comes to news. The links come in from either a liberal/conservative/neutral news source and discussion ensues. There are some crazy comments on the extreme edges of the spectrum - but most of the them are reasonable debates that tend to flush out the heart of the story.
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Agreed. I've been following the Ferguson threads on metafilter (which tends to run liberal, and unlike reddit, doesn't seem to suffer from the noise that comes from the extremes), and they really have been excellent about keeping tabs on all incoming information and fleshing out what has been reported.
 
Diemen said:
Agreed. I've been following the Ferguson threads on metafilter (which tends to run liberal, and unlike reddit, doesn't seem to suffer from the noise that comes from the extremes), and they really have been excellent about keeping tabs on all incoming information and fleshing out what has been reported.
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Is there a site that is really know for just presenting the facts of the news, as they are known?

I don't mind editorials, but only when I know I'm reading an editorial. When I hear/read a reporter begin to add their own slant - the alarms start going off.

I guess if these sites do exist, they are a small. There's not as much money appealing to the ever shrinking "middle" of the spectrum.
 
AEON said:
I thought this was interesting and relevant to some of the points we discussed earlier (regarding the eyewitnesses).

Why witnesses are often wrong - CNN.com Video
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I'm well aware of the legal standing of eyewitnesses vs. hard evidence. I simply think this is a special case where I am trusting the eyewitnesses over statements given by the police over what was going on because this police department is not to be trusted.
 
PhilsFan said:
I'm well aware of the legal standing of eyewitnesses vs. hard evidence. I simply think this is a special case where I am trusting the eyewitnesses over statements given by the police over what was going on because this police department is not to be trusted.
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Then what do you think of the eyewitness (Ferguson resident, presumably African-American) who claims Michael Brown charged the officer while the officer was shooting?
 
At this point there are 4 independent witnesses whose stories agree quite remarkably and have from the day of the incident, and whose stories don't agree with this other witness. That doesn't necessarily mean the 4 are correct and this one isn't, but it certainly does give more credibility to their narrative, seeing as they all had different vantage points of the incident, only 2 of them actually know each other (boss/employee relationship), and yet their stories match up quite closely.

The police also confiscated the cell phone from one of the witnesses who had recorded the incident. One would think that if the cell phone recording exonerated the officer's actions, they would have released the recording by now.

Though granted, what the police might consider justifiable actions might not mesh with what the general public considers justifiable (see the recent STL shooting of a mentally disturbed man that the STL police felt ok releasing video from).
 
PhilsFan said:
Also, this is a post about how the orbital fracture thing might be bullshit started by a right wing blogger:

Jim Hoft's Unsourced Claim That Officer Darren Wilson Had an "Orbital Blowout Fracture of the Eye Socket" - Little Green Footballs
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Yeah - I'm fairly skeptical of these initial reports. We will need something WAY more official than this. I think most witnesses have said there was some altercation at the car. That' about all we can really "know" at this point.

However, this part of the altercation only "sets the stage" - still important, but not NEARLY as important as what was happening when Darren Wilson started shooting (aside from the possible single shot in the vehicle).

Even if Darren Wilson WAS assaulted this violently - even if Michael Brown had reached for the weapon - if Michael Brown indeed surrendered (or froze as commanded) then Michael Brown should have been arrested and charged for that crime.

If the Darren Wilson had the mental capacity (after being injured) to chase Michael and not gun him down immediately (which, according to many of the analysts on TV - would have been legally justified because of the assault and reaching for the weapon) - then he had the mental capacity to apprehend a surrendering suspect without shooting.

I will only think this shooting is justified (yet still tragic) if it is proven that Michael Brown assaulted the officer AND was charging/kept moving forward after he froze.
 
AEON said:
Then what do you think of the eyewitness (Ferguson resident, presumably African-American) who claims Michael Brown charged the officer while the officer was shooting?
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I listened to the audio and couldn't hear shit so I'm a bit skeptical of the transcript.
 
PhilsFan said:
I listened to the audio and couldn't hear shit so I'm a bit skeptical of the transcript.
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I think CNN also verified...

But I'm guessing/hoping that between the FBI, Justice Department, State Police...etc. that they have enough official witnesses (not necessarily the ones that have spoken to the media - because it could literally be dangerous for some to publicly share something that may benefit Darren Wilson) to develop a picture that fits the forensics.
 
Had anyone noticed this?

tumblr_nadjkxFPQe1qejmn1o1_500.jpg
 
Now reports say the blogger completely fabricated the story of the fractured orbital socket

And apparently the blogger has a history of this.


Sent from my iPhone using U2 Interference
 
BVS said:
Now reports say the blogger completely fabricated the story of the fractured orbital socket

And apparently the blogger has a history of this.


Sent from my iPhone using U2 Interference
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Yeah - we really won't know much until we some official releases. From what I understand - that may take awhile.
 
I'm a bit baffled by the info that was on the heavily redacted incident reports given to the ACLU after they filed a lawsuit under FOIA (or Missouri's similar state laws):

•On Aug. 12, the American Civil Liberties Union of Missouri asked the Ferguson Police Department to release the complete incident report for the Aug. 9 fatal shooting of Michael Brown. After the request was denied, the ACLU filed a Missouri Sunshine Law suit on Aug. 15.

•On Aug. 20th we received the St. Louis County Police Department's incident report, which only includes barebones information and lacks any narrative description of what occurred. The county report classifies the shooting as a homicide.

•The report from the St. Louis County Police reveals a time discrepancy which further suggests there is much the public doesn’t know. The county report shows a 43 minute delay before anyone called the county police and another 47 minute delay before the county police arrived on the scene.

•The following day, Aug. 21, the ACLU received the Ferguson Police Department's incident report. It was redacted, and also lacked any narrative description of what occurred.

It is deeply troubling and unacceptable that the two incident reports we’ve received completely lack any detailed information of what happened when Officer Darren Wilson encountered and then shot an unarmed Michael Brown. Two weeks after the shooting, this demonstrates a continued lack of transparency and adds to confusion about the events of the day. We still do not have what should be publicly available information about the police shooting of Michael Brown.
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I don't understand why an incident report wouldn't... report what happened in the incident. Also, the time delay between the incident and Wilson first calling dispatch, and then between that and police responding to the scene are troubling (to say the least).
 
Diemen said:
I'm a bit baffled by the info that was on the heavily redacted incident reports given to the ACLU after they filed a lawsuit under FOIA (or Missouri's similar state laws):



I don't understand why an incident report wouldn't... report what happened in the incident. Also, the time delay between the incident and Wilson first calling dispatch, and then between that and police responding to the scene are troubling (to say the least).
Click to expand...

Is there anyone here who knows if this "normally" the case in high profile shootings? On CNN, they tend to think the prosecution is doing everything it can to avoid mistakes. I haven't heard much else about the lack of information (other than frustration).
 
The latest I've heard is that a robbery didn't happen. A store clerk didn't call it in, but a customer that was confused as to what they saw. The shoving was over a verbal altercation.

Of course this may be as reliable as the blogger :shrug:


Sent from my iPhone using U2 Interference
 
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