Racist Police Response to Ferguson Protests

[mikal]

I listened to a lot of Michael McDonald as a teen and all I can think about is loving people really hard.


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[Diemen]

So I guess thugs don't go to church now?

[AEON]

Originally Posted by mikal

I listened to a lot of Michael McDonald as a teen and all I can think about is loving people really hard.


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Is that the guy from The Doobie Brothers?

[mikal]

Originally Posted by Diemen

So I guess thugs don't go to church now?

No. Ever since I called their....too soon?


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[bono_212]

Originally Posted by PhilsFan

I'm not saying all liberals get it. I'm saying all conservatives don't.

You're painting with a wonderfully broad brush.

[PhilsFan]

Originally Posted by bono_212

You're painting with a wonderfully broad brush.

I am, because I'm furious. I'm trying to avoid calling AEON racist but his posts are making it difficult to avoid. Thugs and rappers and a bunch of nonsense.

[anitram]

It is absolutely astounding to me the level of faith that some people have in the police, completely separate and apart from this incident.

There is probably no organization (save for maybe the military) where the internal code is followed so cultishly and with such blindness and devotion to make it essentially impossible to extract the truth. There is zero transparency and a remarkable willingness to cover things up that simply does not exist in any other type of profession. For that reason alone I typically don't trust the police as far as I can spit.

[bono_212]

Originally Posted by PhilsFan

I am, because I'm furious. I'm trying to avoid calling AEON racist but his posts are making it difficult to avoid. Thugs and rappers and a bunch of nonsense.

But Aeon is one person, that's what I'm trying to get at. I know you know that, and I know you're mad, so I'm not trying to snipe at you. I agree with nearly everything you've said. I've been very impressed, in fact, with many of your arguments. It was just that one thing that bothered me.

[bono_212]

I wanted to bring something up that Mikal mentioned the other day. He asked why the police officer didn't shoot to wound. It's my understanding, and please, correct me if I'm wrong, but police officers are trained not to shoot to wound. If they're going to shoot, it is only supposed to be in a situation where lethal force is found to be necessary, isn't that the case?

[Axver]

Originally Posted by AEON

I was listening to War, Unforgettable Fire, and Joshua Tree in my teens...

Aaaand "Exit" was used as part of a murderer's defence at trial, arguing that it influenced his actions. Now who's the thug/punk/maker-of-tenuous-claims?

(Two can play this game of "look at this violent music!")

[corianderstem]

Originally Posted by bono_212

I wanted to bring something up that Mikal mentioned the other day. He asked why the police officer didn't shoot to wound. It's my understanding, and please, correct me if I'm wrong, but police officers are trained not to shoot to wound. If they're going to shoot, it is only supposed to be in a situation where lethal force is found to be necessary, isn't that the case?

I had someone tell me cops were trained to shoot until the immediate threat was gone.

I mean, I know you hear stories of people hopped up on goofballs and/or rage getting shot in the arm or shoulder and then keep coming at you, but I don't know that that seems to be the case here. Unless a bullet wound directly on top of the head meant that he was charging at the officer, head down, like a bull or something.

[mikal]

Bullet The Blue Sky was used on the Sons of Anarchy commercial. I immediately feel like joining a biker gang and committing multiple murders.


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[BoMac]

Originally Posted by anitram

It is absolutely astounding to me the level of faith that some people have in the police, completely separate and apart from this incident.

There is probably no organization (save for maybe the military) where the internal code is followed so cultishly and with such blindness and devotion to make it essentially impossible to extract the truth. There is zero transparency and a remarkable willingness to cover things up that simply does not exist in any other type of profession. For that reason alone I typically don't trust the police as far as I can spit.

It infuriates me that Ferguson police have removed their nametags.

[AEON]

Originally Posted by Axver

Aaaand "Exit" was used as part of a murderer's defence at trial, arguing that it influenced his actions. Now who's the thug/punk/maker-of-tenuous-claims?

(Two can play this game of "look at this violent music!")

The music we listen to, the clothes we wear, the websites we visit, the grades we make, the classes we take, the books we read, the crimes we commit, the drugs we take - each of these play a factor, bit by bit, in describing who we are to others. Is it ever a complete picture? Of course not. Can we learn something about someone with this knowledge? I would argue yes. Especially since we often advertise these things about ourselves - it's what we WANT the world to think of us (think of bumper stickers, baseball hats of favorite teams, banners from prior military service, t-shirts from concerts, facebook status, blogs, tweets...).

We should not be surprised when people use the very image we voluntarily and openly project to them to describe who we are and what are tendencies may be.

As I said before, if we discover that the police officer was a singer in a White Supremacist Thrash Metal Band, collects Nazi memorabilia, tweets hate filled frustration about his line of work - those things would certainly impact how I view this incident.

However - I'm hopeful the science, the forensics, completes the picture for us. But I doubt it will give us a 100 percent clear picture (and if it did, there would still be many that would refuse the data). The rest of the picture, each of us will fill in with our own perception - and part of that perception will be based on the image that Darren Wilson and Michael Brown gave us days/moments before the shooting.

[AEON]

Originally Posted by corianderstem

I had someone tell me cops were trained to shoot until the immediate threat was gone.

According to the cops that have chimed in on reddit (for what it's worth), this is how they are trained. There is no difference between kill shot/maim shot. You shoot until the threat is gone.

It also seems that cops they've interviewed on TV say the same thing. Of course, each has their own opinion on whether or not Michael Brown was a threat at the time of the shooting.

[AEON]

Originally Posted by anitram

There is probably no organization (save for maybe the military) where the internal code is followed so cultishly and with such blindness and devotion to make it essentially impossible to extract the truth. There is zero transparency and a remarkable willingness to cover things up that simply does not exist in any other type of profession. For that reason alone I typically don't trust the police as far as I can spit.

Dash cams and lapel cams should be mandatory.

[corianderstem]

Thanks. (re the cop/shooting thing)

[bono_212]

Originally Posted by corianderstem

Thanks. (re the cop/shooting thing)

The way I understood it, the actual ability to "maim shot" or whatever you want to call it, isn't really a simple thing to do, and the chances of accidentally fatally wounding someone, or opening the police department up to a lawsuit are so great, that the only time it's really "worth it" to shoot is when the need is to shoot to kill.


(In which case, IMO, Brown never should have been fired upon)

[mikal]

Originally Posted by bono_212

The way I understood it, the actual ability to "maim shot" or whatever you want to call it, isn't really a simple thing to do, and the chances of accidentally fatally wounding someone, or opening the police department up to a lawsuit are so great, that the only time it's really "worth it" to shoot is when the need is to shoot to kill.


(In which case, IMO, Brown never should have been fired upon)

Ah that makes sense. I'll say this. If I ever got cocky with a cop, if he or she drew their gun, that would be enough me to cry like a baby.


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[Diemen]

John Oliver with a nice perspective on this whole thing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUdHIatS36A