Racism: glorified hyperbole in America

[Headache in a Suitcase]

While I clearly have issues with Iron Horse's overall feelings on the issue of race, I don't disagree that government leaders should not make specific statements around the cause and effect of an open case before it's come to trial and before all of the facts have been brought to light.

Much like it's irresponsible for Trump to inflame his base by blaming everything on Islam before the facts come out, even in cases where it seems obvious like in the Egypt air situation, it's irresponsible for the governor of Minnesota to make the same sort of blanket, specific statements relating to this incident and race, even though it may seem obvious.

I get and feel his emotion, but his statemenrs should have ended at "we will pursue justice in this case, it will be fair and unbiased to all parties, and nobody will recieve special treatment due to their position nor recieve lesser treatment due to the color of their skin."

And then actually fight for what he believes in.


I have no issues with what Obama said whatsoever, and don't know how anyone could unless they are so biased against him that it's just second nature to dislike what he says. He was very measured and relayed what we were all thinking without being overly emotional.

 

[BVS]

Here's another one:

ST. PAUL, Minn. (Reuters) - Minnesota Governor Mark Dayton said that he did not believe the black man shot dead by police on Wednesday during a routine traffic stop would have been treated that way if he had been white.

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/minnesota-governor-decries-racism-police-shoot-black-man-204011041.html


This continuing trend to rush to judgment is frightening enough coming from a mob but here is an elected official joining them.


Facebook comment by Allen West this morning:

"Once again, President Obama shifts the narrative to achieve his ideological agenda. When terrorists kill in San Bernardino, it's the gun. When terrorists kill in Orlando, it's the gun. When domestic terrorists kill cops in Dallas, it's the gun. But yesterday he had no trouble condemning the police in relation to incidents in Louisiana and Minnesota. The pattern began when he said the police acted "stupidly" back in Cambridge, Mass (regarding Henry Louis Gates) and he fanned those flames again in Ferguson. Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton and the radical progressive left have created the atmosphere that blew up in Dallas last night."

Rush to judgment, or comment on the frightening trend of statistics? Was he too soon? Possibly. Was he wrong? Reality tells us no.

Once again; white man hand on gun - hesitation and restraint, black man reaching - no hesitation no restraint. This pattern shows people that certain people are valued differently.


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[Oregoropa]

It's all Okie Doke


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[Diemen]

Allen West. Cause that guy's all about bringing people together. Not a divisive bone in his body, Allen West.

 

[PhilsFan]

While I clearly have issues with Iron Horse's overall feelings on the issue of race, I don't disagree that government leaders should not make specific statements around the cause and effect of an open case before it's come to trial and before all of the facts have been brought to light.

This won't work, they rarely ever go to trial.

 

[BVS]

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/10/o...-america-fails-to-see.html?smid=tw-share&_r=0

You say that black folks kill each other every day without a mumbling word while we thunderously protest a few cops, usually but not always white, who shoot to death black people who you deem to be mostly “thugs.”

That such an accusation is nonsense is nearly beside the point. Black people protest, to one another, to a world that largely refuses to listen, that what goes on in black communities across this nation is horrid, as it would be in any neighborhood depleted of dollars and hope — emptied of good schools, and deprived of social and economic buffers against brutality. People usually murder where they nest; they aim their rage at easy targets.

It is not best understood as black-on-black crime; rather, it is neighbor-to-neighbor carnage. If their neighbors were white, they’d get no exemption from the crime that plagues human beings who happen to be black. If you want interracial killing, you have to have interracial communities.

We all can see the same videos. But you insist that the camera doesn’t tell the whole story. Of course you’re right, but you don’t really want to see or hear that story.

 

[Irvine511]

If you can't see or understand how Obama has used the issue of race the past years, I don't know what to say.

can you please, please explain this. i am perplexed. i don't understand where this is coming from. i've seen people post a link from Dick Morris where he accuses Obama of "dividing us" as a people and that these officer shootings are the "fruits of Obama's race-baiting politics."

i just don't see it. it seems like glorified hyperbole.

can you explain?

 

[gump]

Go away, bigot.

Seriously, I'm all for confronting ideas, but bigotry should not be an accepted standard. It really makes you think why said user has not been banned yet.

 

[KhanadaRhodes]

This won't work, they rarely ever go to trial.

this is true. sworn to uphold the law but rarely ever held to the same standard. then they dare to wonder why minorities, women, and teens (basically anyone other than upper and middle class white men) maybe feel uneasy or distrustful of them when having to deal with them.

 

[BVS]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...on-swirled-around-armed-man-carrying-a-rifle/

Why would the Police tweet this photo with absolutely no intelligence linking him to the shooting? There's been no apology and as of this morning his picture is still there.

The white men that protested Obama in Austin with rifles strapped to their backs were considered "patriots".

The black man that protests with open carry is considered a suspect and has his face plastered across the internet without a shred of evidence. Where is the outrage of no due process and rush to judgement? This rush to judgement could have cost him his life. Where's the outrage?

I guess ALL lives don't matter.

 

[deep]

conflating these two incidents shows bias,
as I viewed the FB feed, all I could conclude is that it is 100% terrible, pulled over for a broker tail light, the man is dead, 100% wrong

with more time and information, it could be less wrong, but I doubt it, I hope the cop had a body camera, that would be a more, complete picture.


The LA incident, is different, the police responded to a 911 call that a man was brandishing a gun, they had to investigate, members of the public are supposed to follow police commands.
Yes, the video looks terrible, he should have allowed them to do their job, if he did brandish the gun, should he have been arrested or let go?
my judgement on this one is that it is terrible the man is dead, I won't make a leap to judgement on the police actions yet.

 

[deep]

social justice warriors, where is your outrage?


Witness captures final moments of Dylan Noble shooting - LA Times

 

[Irvine511]

social justice warriors, where is your outrage?





Witness captures final moments of Dylan Noble shooting - LA Times

Taunting like this is pretty much the lowest form of discussion possible. Because one bad thing got less attention than another bad thing, the people upset about the first bad thing are suddenly dismissable.

 

[deep]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...on-swirled-around-armed-man-carrying-a-rifle/

Why would the Police tweet this photo with absolutely no intelligence linking him to the shooting? There's been no apology and as of this morning his picture is still there.

The white men that protested Obama in Austin with rifles strapped to their backs were considered "patriots".

The black man that protests with open carry is considered a suspect and has his face plastered across the internet without a shred of evidence. Where is the outrage of no due process and rush to judgement? This rush to judgement could have cost him his life. Where's the outrage?

I guess ALL lives don't matter.

I will make an attempt here,
can you not see the difference that last night there was a HUGE STATE OF PANIC that someone had an assault rifle and was killing a bunch of people???

so a man (even a WHITE man) walking around in camo with an assault rifle slung over his shoulder would and should be detained, and also should probably not walk around like that ever if it is perfectly legal, probable not a good idea to go the Batman premier that way either, or to a grade school, even it is legal in your fucked up state.

 

[deep]

Taunting like this is pretty much the lowest form of discussion possible. Because one bad thing got less attention than another bad thing, the people upset about the first bad thing are suddenly dismissable.

you can't be better than this?
did you not see what I wrote about the MN incident vs the LA incident?
you do realize that 19 year old kid had no gun and there was no report of a man brandishing a weapon?

and I was first and loudest with BLACK LIVES MATTER (look at the Trayvon Martin thread} before it became an empty slogan for some jack asses

I took a lot of shit when I started that thread and called it murder, and said Trayvon was only dead because he was black.

Black Lives Matter withdraws from S.F.'s Pride Parade due to increased police presence - LA Times

 

[BVS]

social justice warriors, where is your outrage?


Witness captures final moments of Dylan Noble shooting - LA Times

Any shooting is tragic, but this video doesn't show anything.

And most reports point to suicide by cop.

 

[Irvine511]

you can't be better than this?
did you not see what I wrote about the MN incident vs the LA incident?
you do realize that 19 year old kid had no gun and there was no report of a man brandishing a weapon?

and I was first and loudest with BLACK LIVES MATTER (look at the Trayvon Martin thread} before it became an empty slogan for some jack asses

I took a lot of shit when I started that thread and called it murder, and said Trayvon was only dead because he was black.

Black Lives Matter withdraws from S.F.'s Pride Parade due to increased police presence - LA Times

Taunting people for not expressing equal outrage at all bad things everywhere indicates that you need to do better instead of pulling this #alllivesmatter garbage.

 

[deep]

Any shooting is tragic, but this video doesn't show anything.

And most reports point to suicide by cop.

a wrong conclusion, but an easy place to go to because it supports your bias

 

[BVS]

I will make an attempt here,
can you not see the difference that last night there was a HUGE STATE OF PANIC that someone had an assault rifle and was killing a bunch of people???

Of course I know the difference, but deep, we're all sick of mob rule without due process.

so a man (even a WHITE man) walking around in camo with an assault rifle slung over his shoulder would and should be detained,

Absolutely, but should he have his picture put on the internet without a shred of evidence? Would they have done it if he was white? I don't know, there doesn't seem to be much precedent for this type of use of twitter by police.

and also should probably not walk around like that ever if it is perfectly legal

I agree, but it's praised when you're white. You're a fucking patriot if you're white and protesting a black president.

 

[BVS]

a wrong conclusion, but an easy place to go to because it supports your bias

A wrong conclusion? Are you aware of something the reporters are not?

My bias against white people?

 

[deep]

Taunting people for not expressing equal outrage at all bad things everywhere indicates that you need to do better instead of pulling this #alllivesmatter garbage.

if this is a discussion, and I do remember when we were able to do that, calling 'taunting' does not contribute, why not respond to what I have posted about the MN incident appearing to be terrible and the LA incident being quite different, so including them as equal serves a bias to make people resent and even hate the police which leads to actions like we had in Texas last night. And the fact the BLM were invited to be the Grand Marshall at SF Gay Pride but pulled out because the Police were not excluded supports the BLM leaders are anti-Police, when police are the answer to protecting us all from terrible incidents like what happened in Orlando or when the WHITE man killed those black people in that church.


that #alllivesmatters is called racists shows bias thinking,
bias thinking is akin to racism, homophobia, does each man become the thing he hates?

 

[Irvine511]

You aren't even making sense.

 

[anitram]

I am also having trouble following deep's point.

The BLM people caused a major disturbance at the Toronto Pride parade (they in fact shut it down for 30 mins until organizers agreed to their demands) though they were honoured guests of Pride. That I think is the trouble with loosely affiliated organizations, actually reminds me of the Occupy Wall Street people.

But I'm not sure why deep brought up BLM at the SF parade in relation to the latest news to be honest.

 

[deep]

Absolutely, but should he have his picture put on the internet without a shred of evidence? Would they have done it if he was white? I don't know, there doesn't seem to be much precedent for this type of use of twitter by police.




.

ok I am going to treat this as a sincere question,

ABSOLUTELY 100%, a WHITE man walking around in camo with an AK over his shoulder?? if they did not put this out on social media that is so available now it would be irresponsible,

 

[deep]

I am also having trouble following deep's point.

The BLM people caused a major disturbance at the Toronto Pride parade (they in fact shut it down for 30 mins until organizers agreed to their demands) though they were honoured guests of Pride. That I think is the trouble with loosely affiliated organizations, actually reminds me of the Occupy Wall Street people.

But I'm not sure why deep brought up BLM at the SF parade in relation to the latest news to be honest.

there is strong anti-police voice in the BLM leadership now

to a point, where they contribute to people wanting to attack the police

 

[BVS]

ok I am going to treat this as a sincere question,

ABSOLUTELY 100%, a WHITE man walking around in camo with an AK over his shoulder?? if they did not put this out on social media that is so available now it would be irresponsible,

But it's legal here, stupid as shit, but it's legal. If someone was shot at the Confederate rally, would they post the whole crowd's picture on twitter as suspects? His legal display was the ONLY thing remotely tying him to the shooting. So how is that responsible? You're judging him for exercising his 2nd amendment right. Your fellow Trump voters would be furious with you if he was white.

 

[deep]

You aren't even making sense.

what is racism but one having a bias against a person or people because they are in a group based their race, skin color,

what is homophobia but one having a bias against a person or people because they are in a group based sexual orientation


bias in favor of the group you are in against the group you are not is is wrong,

of course unless one group's behavior or actions are just wrong

being gay or black is not wrong.

 

[Irvine511]

there is strong anti-police voice in the BLM leadership now



to a point, where they contribute to people wanting to attack the police

Ok, I'll bite.

I don't disagree.

My concern -- aside from the obvious one of police shooting first, asking questions later when it comes to black men -- is what this will do to policing. It's a tough job. It's also one they signed up for. The violence has always happened, it's the cameras that are new. I think the cameras are a good thing. However, it's not so much the anti-police messages you seem to hear in the BLM movement and more that I fear this will discourage good people from going into policing, and prevent police from doing necessary work. The crime rate in Baltimore has shot up over the past year. We have reports in DC that our "vice squads" -- plainclothes cops who used to rush sidewalk craps games that often ended in violence -- are no more. Now, it could be said that this kind of aggressive policing bred distrust, anger, and fear in certain communities. You could also say that, yes, but the crime rate has fallen. These squads may have cracked some skulls, so to speak, but they pounced on bad people. The murder rate has plummeted in DC the past 20 years. And who is/was getting murdered? Generally, young black males.

So. The hard choice could be that if the cops pull back and police less and less aggressively, we may see our murder rates rise. And the vast majority of the people getting murdered are black males.

What's the answer?

Aside from reducing poverty. Obviously we can do that because Mitt Romney might have to pay more in taxes.

 

[deep]

But it's legal here, stupid as shit, but it's legal. If someone was shot at the Confederate rally, would they post the whole crowd's picture on twitter as suspects? His legal display was the ONLY thing remotely tying him to the shooting. So how is that responsible? You're judging him for exercising his 2nd amendment right. Your fellow Trump voters would be furious with you if he was white.

you sound like an idiot foolish

when "the practice" gives the reasonable answer, argue the arcane theory?? to what purpose??

I answered your question, WHITE GUY, yes 100% I would support, I would be taking the picture and sending it to the police last night

'because its legal,


I was going to come up with a list of 'legal things' people can do, that no clear thinking person would do without expecting consequences
but I am not locked in a cell with nothing better to do with my time (yet)

 

[deep]

Ok, I'll bite.

I don't disagree.

My concern -- aside from the obvious one of police shooting first, asking questions later when it comes to black men -- is what this will do to policing. It's a tough job. It's also one they signed up for. The violence has always happened, it's the cameras that are new. I think the cameras are a good thing. However, it's not so much the anti-police messages you seem to hear in the BLM movement and more that I fear this will discourage good people from going into policing, and prevent police from doing necessary work. The crime rate in Baltimore has shot up over the past year. We have reports in DC that our "vice squads" -- plainclothes cops who used to rush sidewalk craps games that often ended in violence -- are no more. Now, it could be said that this kind of aggressive policing bred distrust, anger, and fear in certain communities. You could also say that, yes, but the crime rate has fallen. These squads may have cracked some skulls, so to speak, but they pounced on bad people. The murder rate has plummeted in DC the past 20 years. And who is/was getting murdered? Generally, young black males.

So. The hard choice could be that if the cops pull back and police less and less aggressively, we may see our murder rates rise. And the vast majority of the people getting murdered are black males.

What's the answer?

Aside from reducing poverty. Obviously we can do that because Mitt Romney might have to pay more in taxes.

thanks for this post

I am out of time for now, but there is much you have said that I can agree with, it is complicated, at 60, living in the greater Los Angeles area my whole life I know there is bias against people of color, I have seen it and questioned it, the question is how do we make things better without making them worse. I am always looking at these things and asking how we can do better. Thinking you identified it, and knowing all of Kanye's lyrics doesn't make yo the best person to take charge and lead the way, it could make you a bigger part of the problem,