Racism: glorified hyperbole in America

[cobl04]

I'm sure we can both agree however that whatever really happened ... a black man should not be dead right now.

 

[Irvine511]

both of these videos are incredibly disturbing.

at the risk of sounding like i'm blaming the victim -- i'm not, at all -- but i do wonder if our heavily armed population makes our cops a bit more trigger happy and jumpy than they would be if firearms weren't so widely available.

what we have in Minneapolis is an example of a Responsible Gun Owner who did everything right, who informed the officer (which he is not even legally required to do by law), and still was gunned down in front of his girlfriend and daughter.

setting aside the obvious racism and issue with what seem to be piss-poor police officers, badly trained, it still stands that the mere presence of a gun makes you more likely to get shot.

there is no such thing as a responsible gun owner. it's like being a healthy smoker. most gun owners are well intentioned, but the act of owning a gun itself is irresponsible. always, and in all ways.

this violence is nothing new. it's just the cameras that are new. minorities haven't been making up stories of police brutality for decades.

i'm at a loss right now. how do we make our police better? how do we make us all safer? how do we address structural racism that often ends with a dead black man?

 

[BVS]

there is no such thing as a responsible gun owner. it's like being a healthy smoker. most gun owners are well intentioned, but the act of owning a gun itself is irresponsible. always, and in all ways.

I don't agree. How is owning a gun in itself irresponsible?

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

at the risk of sounding like i'm blaming the victim -- i'm not, at all -- but i do wonder if our heavily armed population makes our cops a bit more trigger happy and jumpy than they would be if firearms weren't so widely available.

Clearly yes.

It's why I'm always so baffled why there are so many officers who support the NRA. The two things don't go hand in hand. You would think the majority would want as many guns off the street as possible.

It's also another sign of our institutional racism in this country. Everyone comes out crying for gun control after mass shootings, but you don't see the same level of outrage at the daily killings in poor black neighborhoods.

It's time to get the god damn guns off of the god damn streets. Everywhere. No good comes from it.

 

[Irvine511]

I don't agree. How is owning a gun in itself irresponsible?

my point is a broad one: owning a gun is an invitation to bring gun violence into your world. the mere presence of a gun dramatically increases the likelihood that you or someone you know will be shot in your house or in your presence. maybe you.

i also want to stress, again, that neither of these men did anything wrong, let anything to deserve being killed. they are innocent victims of police brutality due in large part to their skin color.

what we have here are two incidents where one person was, reportedly, carrying a gun and possibly threatening people in the parking lot. the other, someone had proven himself "responsible" enough to get a concealed carry permit. he informed the officer which he did not legally have to do that he had a gun.

both men are dead.

race and bad police officers are a factor here.

the mere presence of a gun is another.

 

[BVS]

my point is a broad one: owning a gun is an invitation to bring gun violence into your world. the mere presence of a gun dramatically increases the likelihood that you or someone you know will be shot in your house or in your presence. maybe you.

Owning a car increases the likelihood you or someone will be killed in a car accident, but I wouldn't say that makes you irresponsible.

I think you can be a responsible gun owner. I don't believe our carry laws are very responsible. I don't believe our purchasing laws are responsible. And I DO believe that if anyone still supports the NRA they ARE partially responsible for the problems we have on our streets.

 

[Irvine511]

Owning a car increases the likelihood you or someone will be killed in a car accident, but I wouldn't say that makes you irresponsible.

I think you can be a responsible gun owner. I don't believe our carry laws are very responsible. I don't believe our purchasing laws are responsible. And I DO believe that if anyone still supports the NRA they ARE partially responsible for the problems we have on our streets.

i think that cars are used for purposes other than killing people in accidents.

guns are designed to pump hot metal into flesh in order to end life.

i also think that i'm distracting from what should be the real focus: the victims.

for that i'm sorry.

 

[trojanchick99]

The silence from the NRA is deafening.

 

[BVS]

i think that cars are used for purposes other than killing people in accidents.

guns are designed to pump hot metal into flesh in order to end life.

i also think that i'm distracting from what should be the real focus: the victims.

for that i'm sorry.

You and I are probably 90-95% in agreeance on guns, but I do believe that self defense and hunting are legitimate purposes and can be done so responsibly.

 

[BVS]

The silence from the NRA is deafening.

Not surprising. The NRA has a long history of racism, this is exactly what they want.

In fact the NRA's first lobbying efforts were all based on gun control, and it's first effort was to make it illegal for freed slaves to own guns.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

You and I are probably 90-95% in agreeance on guns, but I do believe that self defense and hunting are legitimate purposes and can be done so responsibly.

You can hunt with a bow and arrow, too.

 

[BVS]

You can hunt with a bow and arrow, too.

That's how real men do it...

 

[Irvine511]

You and I are probably 90-95% in agreeance on guns, but I do believe that self defense and hunting are legitimate purposes and can be done so responsibly.

I can agree on hunting. Ideally I'd like to see a hunting club where guns are stored, and then used as needed.

I realize I'm not making a fully practical point. But I think it's true that the self-defense argument is statistically neutralized by the increased likelihood of accidents, suicides, or domestic disputes escalating and ending in death because a gun was present in the home.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

That's how real men do it...

Word

 

[BVS]

When there's a mass shooting, we hear people say "if only they were carrying".

But when an officer shoots a civilian we hear people say "well he shouldn't be carrying".

When a man is shot by an officer we get a full list of his previous record.

When a college student rapes an unconscious woman, we hear about his past accomplishments.

 

[anitram]

both of these videos are incredibly disturbing.

at the risk of sounding like i'm blaming the victim -- i'm not, at all -- but i do wonder if our heavily armed population makes our cops a bit more trigger happy and jumpy than they would be if firearms weren't so widely available.

I listened to an interview on our public radio with a law enforcement consultant (whatever that is) and he was talking about this exact point. He works across North America and he said it's a big difference between Canada and the US and also a big difference between US states which have disparate gun control laws or varying levels of gun ownership per capita. Anyway, his point was that police essentially expect members of the public to be armed in certain areas and that informs their behaviour. Seems pretty obvious to me that would be the case.

 

[DaveC]

don't forget guys that this is all just glorified hyperbole. racism ended in the 60s and now we just don't see it anymore.

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

Clearly yes.

It's why I'm always so baffled why there are so many officers who support the NRA. The two things don't go hand in hand. You would think the majority would want as many guns off the street as possible.

It's also another sign of our institutional racism in this country. Everyone comes out crying for gun control after mass shootings, but you don't see the same level of outrage at the daily killings in poor black neighborhoods.

It's time to get the god damn guns off of the god damn streets. Everywhere. No good comes from it.

Exactly.

And the racism thing...Larry Wilmore made a similar point on his show last night. All the people who cry, "But ALL lives matter!" in response to the "Black Lives Matter" movement, they sure seem eerily silent right now. They aren't forming any "All Lives Matter" protests in the streets or raising awareness on social media or whatever. If they truly think all lives matter, why aren't they out protesting this?

I'm so glad others are pointing out the hypocrisy of the "open carry" laws, too, when it comes to white people versus black people. Yeah, apparently the "Second Amendment rights!" argument doesn't apply to black people.

When there's a mass shooting, we hear people say "if only they were carrying".

But when an officer shoots a civilian we hear people say "well he shouldn't be carrying".

When a man is shot by an officer we get a full list of his previous record.

When a college student rapes an unconscious woman, we hear about his past accomplishments.

Again .

Continuing on with your last point, I saw someone point out one time how people's opinion of someone being drunk varies in rape situations, too. If a man assaults a woman when he's drunk, it's excused and brushed away. "He's normally not like that, his judgment was impaired."

But if a woman's raped when she's drunk, "Well, she shouldn't have had so much to drink, it's her fault."

Gotta love those double standards.

 

[BigMacPhisto]

Rape and domestic abuse aren't "major" crimes?

When did I say they weren't?

 

[BigMacPhisto]

I'm in agreement about the cops being extra trigger happy because guns are so rampant. I know for a fact that when cops are called into the Bayview area of San Francisco (there's certain blocks where the murders just pile up over the course of a year), that they wait a few minutes before rushing in there. Obviously, you have a better chance catching the murderer the quicker you arrive at the scene, but of course that would mean running into said murderer who possesses a gun and clearly isn't afraid to use it.

 

[BVS]

This was taken last year at a Confederate KKK rally.


If you're white and have your hand on gun, they try and talk you down. If you're black and reach for your wallet, you're dead.

Let's stop pretending this is just fucking hyperbole.

 

[the iron horse]

This was taken last year at a Confederate KKK rally.


If you're white and have your hand on gun, they try and talk you down. If you're black and reach for your wallet, you're dead.

Let's stop pretending this is just fucking hyperbole.

I'm not pretending its exaggeration, I can see it.

Just that like before, people are again rushing to judgment before the facts are known. People see a video clip and decide the officers are guilty because the officer is white and the victim black.

Obama not wasting a second to continue dividing and creating turmoil rushes to his mic to chime in.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

I'm not pretending its exaggeration, I can see it.

Just that like before, people are again rushing to judgment before the facts are known. People see a video clip and decide the officers are guilty because the officer is white and the victim black.

Obama not wasting a second to continue dividing and creating turmoil rushes to his mic to chime in.

The officer in Minnesota is not Caucasian.

 

[Salome]

I'm not pretending its exaggeration, I can see it.

Just that like before, people are again rushing to judgment before the facts are known. People see a video clip and decide the officers are guilty because the officer is white and the victim black.

Surely you're joking?

Obama not wasting a second to continue dividing and creating turmoil rushes to his mic to chime in.

Ah yes, you are joking

 

[BVS]

I'm not pretending its exaggeration, I can see it.







Obama not wasting a second to continue dividing and creating turmoil rushes to his mic to chime in.

Are you sure? Because you said, "I just don't see it" and it's all "exaggeration" in your last post in here. But now you see it? Now it's not exaggeration? So your thread title is incorrect? I'm glad you've finally admitted this.

How did Obama divide?


Sent from my iPhone using U2 Interference

 

[Irvine511]

Yeah, Obama was calm and patient as always.

I just don't see it.

 

[the iron horse]

Are you sure? Because you said, "I just don't see it" and it's all "exaggeration" in your last post in here. But now you see it? Now it's not exaggeration? So your thread title is incorrect? I'm glad you've finally admitted this.

How did Obama divide?


Sent from my iPhone using U2 Interference

No, the thread title is correct: racism is exaggerated in the U.S.
In these recent officer shootings it is almost automatically assumed the victim was shot because of race.


If you can't see or understand how Obama has used the issue of race the past years, I don't know what to say.

Here is what he said yesterday:

TRANSCRIPT: Obama comments on police involved shootings | TheHill

 

[BVS]

No, the thread title is correct: racism is exaggerated in the U.S.

In these recent officer shootings it is almost automatically assumed the victim was shot because of race.

No one is assuming the victim was shot because of race, you are not understanding the issue if you think that is what anyone is saying. The issue is that because of the color of your skin you will be treated differently, the assumptions will be different, the prism of threat is entirely different. If you can't see that then you are choosing to be blind. Not colorblind, but willfully blind.

If you can't see or understand how Obama his used the issue of race the past years, I don't know what to say.

USED the issue of race? This alone shows you just don't understand. Tell me one thing that was incorrect or "dividing" about what he said.


Sent from my iPhone using U2 Interference

 

[the iron horse]

No one is assuming the victim was shot because of race, you are not understanding the issue if you think that is what anyone is saying. The issue is that because of the color of your skin you will be treated differently, the assumptions will be different, the prism of threat is entirely different. If you can't see that then you are choosing to be blind. Not colorblind, but willfully blind.








USED the issue of race? This alone shows you just don't understand. Tell me one thing that was incorrect or "dividing" about what he said.


Sent from my iPhone using U2 Interference

Here's another one:

ST. PAUL, Minn. (Reuters) - Minnesota Governor Mark Dayton said that he did not believe the black man shot dead by police on Wednesday during a routine traffic stop would have been treated that way if he had been white.

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/minnesota-governor-decries-racism-police-shoot-black-man-204011041.html


This continuing trend to rush to judgment is frightening enough coming from a mob but here is an elected official joining them.


Facebook comment by Allen West this morning:

"Once again, President Obama shifts the narrative to achieve his ideological agenda. When terrorists kill in San Bernardino, it's the gun. When terrorists kill in Orlando, it's the gun. When domestic terrorists kill cops in Dallas, it's the gun. But yesterday he had no trouble condemning the police in relation to incidents in Louisiana and Minnesota. The pattern began when he said the police acted "stupidly" back in Cambridge, Mass (regarding Henry Louis Gates) and he fanned those flames again in Ferguson. Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton and the radical progressive left have created the atmosphere that blew up in Dallas last night."

 

[liamcool]

Go away, bigot.