Racism: glorified hyperbole in America

[BVS]

Originally Posted by Oregoropa

How would you prefer it described ?


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What do you and every other media outlet in this country call it when a white man shoots another white man?

[Irvine511]

Originally Posted by Oregoropa

How would you prefer it described ?


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"Violence."

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Originally Posted by Oregoropa

How would you prefer it described ?


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Crime?

[Oregoropa]

Thanks for answering my question. Seems like you would want to view this in a colorblind spectrum.

Is 'violence' how you would describe cop shootings of suspects across the board?


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[bobsaget77]

Originally Posted by Oregoropa

Thanks for answering my question. Seems like you would want to view this in a colorblind spectrum.

Is 'violence' how you would describe cop shootings of suspects across the board?


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[Irvine511]

Originally Posted by Oregoropa

Thanks for answering my question. Seems like you would want to view this in a colorblind spectrum.

Is 'violence' how you would describe cop shootings of suspects across the board?


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Is black people shooting black people somehow better or worse or more problematic than white people shooting white people?

I would be more inclined to look at the socioeconomics of violence rather than race. When you frame these discussions as "black-on-black" there's a tendency to overlook the poverty angle as well as to exacerbate the tendency to think "well that's just how those people are" as well as tell white people that it's really not their problem.

[BVS]

Originally Posted by Oregoropa

Thanks for answering my question. Seems like you would want to view this in a colorblind spectrum.

Is 'violence' how you would describe cop shootings of suspects across the board?


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Yes, getting shot is violent.

Do you not see upholders of the law shooting unarmed citizens being an issue?


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[LuckyNumber7]

Ugh, I hate to have to do this...

Guys, while I neither condone nor condemn the term "black-on-black," statistics are a thing. Demographics are a thing. It's not inherently racist if you mention someone's race. Ignoring demographics is not productive.

That doesn't mean that the usage of the demographic statistic is relevant, significant, or valid. But you can't just hate the term for the sake of not wanting to sound racist. It's not racist unless you make it racist.

[LuckyNumber7]

And to add to my post, correlation =\= causation. Were there to be a statistical significance of black on black crime, that doesn't mean it's because they're black. Of course socioeconomic reasons exist.

[BVS]

Originally Posted by LuckyNumber7

Ugh, I hate to have to do this...

Guys, while I neither condone nor condemn the term "black-on-black," statistics are a thing. Demographics are a thing. It's not inherently racist if you mention someone's race. Ignoring demographics is not productive.

That doesn't mean that the usage of the demographic statistic is relevant, significant, or valid. But you can't just hate the term for the sake of not wanting to sound racist. It's not racist unless you make it racist.

I don't think that was the point.


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[LuckyNumber7]

Originally Posted by BVS

I don't think that was the point.


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Then what's the point? What's wrong with saying "black on black"? Does it sound like too much of a porno or something?

Being colorblind is an excellent goal for humanity, but in order to solve humanity's issues of race you can't just never mention how these races interact.

Let's go right off the bat... whites are more likely to commit white collar crime. Why, because that's their style? No, because they're more likely to have gone through college because they don't grow up shit poor. That doesn't change the fact that the statistic exists. That doesn't mean we should turn a (color)blind eye to it.

[BVS]

Originally Posted by LuckyNumber7

Then what's the point? What's wrong with saying "black on black"? Does it sound like too much of a porno or something?

Being colorblind is an excellent goal for humanity, but in order to solve humanity's issues of race you can't just never mention how these races interact.

Let's go right off the bat... whites are more likely to commit white collar crime. Why, because that's their style? No, because they're more likely to have gone through college because they don't grow up shit poor. That doesn't change the fact that the statistic exists. That doesn't mean we should turn a (color)blind eye to it.

Tell me the next time you turn on the news and you hear; white on white crime, gay on gay, straight on straight, Hispanic on Hispanic crime. You won't hear it, it's a diversion term used by racists in order to sweep uncomfortable subjects under the rug.


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[PhilsFan]

Because "black on black" crime is perpetually used as a deflection when racism is pointed out. "Why are they so worried about cops or racists when they're getting killed by 'their own'?"

[anitram]

To me also, the term "black on black" crime implies that black people are making active choices to commit violent acts against other black people. When in reality it has to do with socioeconomics - crime is most often an act of opportunity and if you're committing crimes in poor ghettos, well who do you think will comprise most of the victims?

[LuckyNumber7]

Originally Posted by BVS

Tell me the next time you turn on the news and you hear; white on white crime, gay on gay, straight on straight, Hispanic on Hispanic crime. You won't hear it, it's a diversion term used by racists in order to sweep uncomfortable subjects under the rug.


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Okay, and I didn't disagree. But to say "just say violence instead" isn't right. It isn't productive.

Call people out for being racist and using it as a diversion. But if someone uses the term and figures a legitimate argument, you can't just say "you shouldn't say that, just use the general term instead." You'd be demanding lossy or generalized information that's otherwise useless.

100% of people who commit violence on other people are people. Let's work towards a solution?

[LuckyNumber7]

Originally Posted by PhilsFan

Because "black on black" crime is perpetually used as a deflection when racism is pointed out. "Why are they so worried about cops or racists when they're getting killed by 'their own'?"

I definitely agree that right wing media does want to portray it as getting killed by "their own." But that makes me hate the racist right wing. I'm indifferent about the term.

[Irvine511]

There's really no point to the term beyond deflection. It's used to imply that dysfunction in black community is solely due to race and not poverty or structural racism.

In aggregate, most murder is white-on-white.

[BigMacPhisto]

But it is a societal thing beyond socio-economic status...poor people (and black people) aren't going around shooting each other in other first world countries like they are in the United States which is obviously a gun nuts paradise. You'd be crazy and outright wrong to think there isn't a cultural trend among disadvantaged blacks in this country to want to carry a weapon and inflict harm.

I don't really buy the argument of poor = more murders, rapes, etc. It can certainly be one of a set of factors more likely to lead to those circumstances, but there's plenty of evidence of poor communities all over the world not suddenly having high crime rates for things that don't directly involve poverty (such as theft).

[LuckyNumber7]

Originally Posted by Irvine511

There's really no point to the term beyond deflection. It's used to imply that dysfunction in black community is solely due to race and not poverty or structural racism.

In aggregate, most murder is white-on-white.

That's just not true. It's like you're claiming there's no point to demographics when it comes to something negative. A demographic statistic that draws a relationship is valuable in every single instance, and important to help draw hypotheses about society.

[Irvine511]

Originally Posted by LuckyNumber7

That's just not true. It's like you're claiming there's no point to demographics when it comes to something negative. A demographic statistic that draws a relationship is valuable in every single instance, and important to help draw hypotheses about society.

It is true that more than 80% of murders are by white people on white people.

I think there's value in demographics, positive or negative, but this particular term cannot be divorced from politics, nor is it applied evenly across all groups. Do we ever talk about white-on-white crime?