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Old 10-19-2008, 10:46 AM   #81
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Token black? I guess that is not considered racist for liberals.



and the iraq war is won? x 2
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Old 10-19-2008, 02:18 PM   #82
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McCain was correct on the Iraq war and what is bullshit is the tired old WMD argument that Democrats like to bring up in an attempt to discredit the war. It misses the key fundamental reasons of why Saddam had to removed in 2003, and ignores what Saddam's capabilities could be today if he were left in power as Barack Obama would have foolishly allowed to happen.

Colin Powel today on meet the press:

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MR. BROKAW: Removing the weapons of mass destruction from the equation, because we now know that they did not exist, was it then a war of necessity or just a war of choice?

GEN. POWELL: Without the weapons of mass destruction present, as conveyed to us by the intelligence community in the most powerful way, I don't think there would have been a war. It was the reason we took it to the public, it was the reason we took it to the American people to the Congress, who supported it on that basis, and it's the presentation I made to the United Nations. Without those weapons of mass destruction then Iraq did not present to the world the kind of threat that it did if it had weapons of mass destruction.
Sweet Jesus Colin Powell is spreading BULLSHIT like the democrats. My goodness, he clearly did not understand the issues that were going on at the time.

Maybe he was brainwashed? WTF......
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Old 10-19-2008, 03:12 PM   #83
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Colin Powel today on meet the press:



Sweet Jesus Colin Powell is spreading BULLSHIT like the democrats. My goodness, he clearly did not understand the issues that were going on at the time.

Maybe he was brainwashed? WTF......
I eagerly await Sting's dismissal of Powell's obviously inexperienced and politically biased opinion.
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Old 10-19-2008, 03:25 PM   #84
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I eagerly await Sting's dismissal of Powell's obviously inexperienced and politically biased opinion.
Yeah, and his vote on Resolution 1441.
Oh, wait...
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Old 10-19-2008, 04:38 PM   #85
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I eagerly await Sting's dismissal of Powell's obviously inexperienced and politically biased opinion.
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Old 10-19-2008, 06:21 PM   #86
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The war in Iraq is won??? i suppose a further discussion of that comment would derail an otherwise wonderful thread, but that is a ludicrous statement amidst a ludicrous post.
Conservatives don't think the Iraq war is lost, hence the beginning of troop withdrawal in January. If you don't want to hear conservative points of view then start a thread of what "liberals think of conservatives".

What, do you think Conservatives are all down on Iraq? Many are happy with the surge including Obama.
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Old 10-19-2008, 06:27 PM   #87
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Conservatives don't think the Iraq war is lost, hence the beginning of troop withdrawal in January. If you don't want to hear conservative points of view then start a thread of what "liberals think of conservatives".

What, do you think Conservatives are all down on Iraq? Many are happy with the surge including Obama.
But you're dodging the point. You said the war was 'won'. There isn't even really an agreed paradigm for what 'winning' means in this war. Just because the violence went down doesn't mean the war is won. The most common thing I've heard is that the war is won when the region is stable. The region is not stable. Taking Saddam out of power has re-ignited the shite-sunni conflict. The government we've set up there in fact favors one side over the other. What many of us on the left feel is that it is best to let these factions decide their fate for themselves, even if that means an Iraqi civil war - that if we simply wait for the region to be stable, we'll be there forever. To say the war is 'won' is to oversimplify things and put a bright spin on a complex, volatile situation.
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Old 10-19-2008, 10:31 PM   #88
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I eagerly await Sting's dismissal of Powell's obviously inexperienced and politically biased opinion.
He just doesn't understand...
Oil is vital...
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Old 10-20-2008, 09:51 AM   #89
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But you're dodging the point. You said the war was 'won'. There isn't even really an agreed paradigm for what 'winning' means in this war. Just because the violence went down doesn't mean the war is won. The most common thing I've heard is that the war is won when the region is stable. The region is not stable. Taking Saddam out of power has re-ignited the shite-sunni conflict. The government we've set up there in fact favors one side over the other. What many of us on the left feel is that it is best to let these factions decide their fate for themselves, even if that means an Iraqi civil war - that if we simply wait for the region to be stable, we'll be there forever. To say the war is 'won' is to oversimplify things and put a bright spin on a complex, volatile situation.
Well we disagree on this area, I mean the subject is the war. It's to be expected.

I think if Obama wins he should consider using Petraeus in Afghanistan and increase troops. Then work with Pakistan to eliminate the Taliban there. It seems consistent enough with Obama's opinion of Afghanistan being the main goal for the war on terror. It will be interesting to see if he decides to side with the popularity of withdrawal or seize the opportunity to finish the mission.
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Old 10-20-2008, 12:09 PM   #90
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Well we disagree on this area, I mean the subject is the war. It's to be expected.

What is there to disagree on? You said the war in Iraq is esentially won(which even Patreous would scratch his head with that one), but you haven't shown us anything to back that statement up, and namkcuR called you out on that...
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Old 10-20-2008, 03:45 PM   #91
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What is there to disagree on? You said the war in Iraq is esentially won(which even Patreous would scratch his head with that one), but you haven't shown us anything to back that statement up, and namkcuR called you out on that...
If pulling out troops because they are not needed is not a good enough sign for you then nothing will be a good sign. Petraeus isn't yelling "VICTORY" because that is bad PR, but he's looking forward to Afghanistan.

Iraq no longer such a risky ride: David Petraeus | The Australian

My guess is that if Obama wins he will continue with the general and fight in Afghanistan until there is a win. I can't see him throw away an opportunity to be a president with a war win under his belt.
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Old 10-20-2008, 05:50 PM   #92
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My guess is that if Obama wins he will continue with the general and fight in Afghanistan until there is a win. I can't see him throw away an opportunity to be a president with a war win under his belt.
Obama has never struck me as the kind of guy who gets off on "war wins".
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Old 10-20-2008, 05:56 PM   #93
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Obama has never struck me as the kind of guy who gets off on "war wins".
I agree. And that's one of my favorite things about him.
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Old 10-20-2008, 05:57 PM   #94
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My guess is that if Obama wins he will continue with the general and fight in Afghanistan until there is a win. I can't see him throw away an opportunity to be a president with a war win under his belt.
If the definition of victory in Iraq is unclear, it has to be even less clear in Afghanistan. You have to deal with the Pakistani border, awful terrain, and securing small American base camps in very remote locations. I don't know how you find all the bad guys in that environment. Maybe there's an unlimited supply of them?
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Old 10-20-2008, 06:48 PM   #95
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Obama has never struck me as the kind of guy who gets off on "war wins".
Consider the alternative, it would validate all the accusations made by the GOP on his national security credentials.
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Old 10-20-2008, 07:12 PM   #96
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Maybe there's an unlimited supply of them?


Bush has guaranteed us this for the next generation.
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