Pure, uneducated ignorance. Go religion!

[Jive Turkey]

Originally Posted by bono_212

Every time? Really?

I get upset when YOU go overboard, which you almost always do.

Why don't you go start a thread where you spend the entire time talking about how stupid and idiotic you find fundies (aka almost all of my close family) and how you wish they'd seal themselves in an oil drum and roll off a cliff and I promise to put it on ignore, rather than on a regular basis, and not just in FYM threads, throwing around YOUR OPINION as though it were fact.

You never add anything to the conversations but vitriol. You're pretty much telling me that I can't express my opinion because it makes you mad. Too bad

[LemonMelon]

Originally Posted by Jive Turkey

But you pick and chose what passages to read as metaphor, no? I don't mean 'pick and choose' in a negative way either. Your rationality is a virtue

I have a schema and I funnel the scriptures through that. I would imagine that anyone reading it is looking for something when they do. In any case, the Bible deserves more than a literal reading.

This law attempting to be passed is patently ridiculous, but you don't need me to tell you that specific contingents of a religion shouldn't be allowed to sway law for everyone.

[Jive Turkey]

Originally Posted by bono_212

And the comment was directed at me, whether you'd like to admit it or not, as I don't consider myself a fundie and therefore, according to your logic, am somehow less religious.

I take that comment very personally.

Not a very productive stance for meaningful dialog. If you couldn't sense my deliberate tongue in cheek hyperbole in the original post or the follow up with deimen, I don't know what to tell you. It was an intentionally ridiculous premise

[bono_212]

Originally Posted by Jive Turkey

You never add anything to the conversations but vitriol. You're pretty much telling me that I can't express my opinion because it makes you mad. Too bad

Because I usually do stay out of the conversation until I get pissed off, I have admitted this before, because these conversations are almost always one sided and basically fair conversation.

The way you opened this thread completely opened you to criticism. You can't blame me for being a bit miffed when you didn't state an opinion, but rather spat an angry and stupidly offensive desire for fundies to go die.

[Jive Turkey]

Originally Posted by bono_212

Because I usually do stay out of the conversation until I get pissed off, I have admitted this before, because these conversations are almost always one sided and basically fair conversation.

The way you opened this thread completely opened you to criticism. You can't blame me for being a bit miffed when you didn't state an opinion, but rather spat an angry and stupidly offensive desire for fundies to go die.

Read the post just above this one. Do you really think putting people in oil drums was my evil plot? If I had said eject them into space, would you also be offended? I though it was sufficiently absurd not to be taken at face value

[Jive Turkey]

And now I get to sit here and wait for Deimen to say "told ya so". THAAAANKS!

[Pearl]

Jive, you usually make rational comments and add good pointers in debates. But the way this thread opened was way over board and out of line.

I don't think you truly want fundies to die, but you've got to step back, calm down and not overreact to such news.

Coming from me, that's saying a lot

[Jive Turkey]

Originally Posted by LemonMelon

I have a schema and I funnel the scriptures through that. I would imagine that anyone reading it is looking for something when they do. In any case, the Bible deserves more than a literal reading.

This law attempting to be passed is patently ridiculous, but you don't need me to tell you that specific contingents of a religion shouldn't be allowed to sway law for everyone.

This is undoubtedly at one extreme, but you can't tell me that there isnt religious meddling at various levels of ridiculousness

[bono_212]

I don't take it at face value, Jive, but do you think it's a safe, smart way to talk towards other people?

Honestly, I'm not angry, I'm just irritated, ok? It's just this same cycle all the time. You (collective, not just you) see an article about that CRAZY fundie, you start a hyperbolic thread about how crazy they are, and then are somehow shocked when not everyone agrees or finds humor in everything said.

It happens all the time all over the Internet. Whatever, I just don't like threats of violence aimed at religion regardless of how hyperbolic they may be. But you really only raised my ire because of the comment about non-fundies which I did take offense to, regardless of whether you feel you aimed it at me or not(obviously you did not specifically, I'm aware of this fact).

I'd like to think that we always calm towards reasonable conversation after a few angry posts, so I am a little hurt by the comment about my posts being only vitriol, but if that's the impression I give off, I apologize, I really do try to stay out of these conversations.

[Jive Turkey]

Originally Posted by Pearl

Jive, you usually make rational comments and add good pointers in debates. But the way this thread opened was way over board and out of line.

I don't think you truly want fundies to die, but you've got to step back, calm down and not overreact to such news.

Coming from me, that's saying a lot

Baaaaah. Fine. I'm sorry for opening that way. Like I said, I thought it was hyperbolic enough that no one would actually get upset.

[Jive Turkey]

Originally Posted by bono_212

I'd like to think that we always calm towards reasonable conversation after a few angry posts, so I am a little hurt by the comment about my posts being only vitriol, but if that's the impression I give off, I apologize, I really do try to stay out of these conversations.

I just meant in the threads you get angry at. I understand getting worked up. I do more than my share of that. I'd just prefer you'd call me an asshole and then state eloquently why I'm so wrong rather than just calling me an asshole. I certainly don't want you not participating.

I'm sorry for upsetting you with the oil drums. But I need to stick my my opinion on levels of religion. Because that's, like, my opinion, man

[LemonMelon]

The funny thing is that the all fundies should die comment wasn't even written in some whirlwind of emotion, it was edited in later. I saw the original kinda inflammatory but not really post and didn't think twice about it.

[Jive Turkey]

Originally Posted by LemonMelon

The funny thing is that the all fundies should die comment wasn't even written in some whirlwind of emotion, it was edited in later. I saw the original kinda inflammatory but not really post and didn't think twice about it.

Ironically, I edited it in later to lighten up the tone of the post. Whoops!

[INDY500]

The State Board of Education, district boards of education,
district superintendents and administrators, and public school
principals and administrators shall endeavor to create an
environment within public elementary and secondary schools that
encourages students to explore scientific questions, learn about
scientific evidence, develop critical thinking skills, and respond
appropriately and respectfully to differences of opinion about
controversial issues.

Students may be evaluated based upon their understanding of
course materials, but no student in any public school or institution
shall be penalized in any way because the student may subscribe to a
particular position on scientific theories. Nothing in this
subsection shall be construed to exempt students from learning,
understanding and being tested on curriculum as prescribed by state
and local education standards.

The intent of the provisions of this act is to create an environment in which
both the teacher and students can openly and objectively discuss the
facts and observations of science, and the assumptions that underlie
their interpretation.

Yes, truly dangerous stuff there.

If we had more students taught "critical thinking skills" in school we'd have more people insisting on actually reading a piece of legislation before commenting on it and fewer people so willing to be spoon-fed propaganda like "Making It Illegal To Fail Science Students Who Argue Humans Co-Existed With Dinosaurs."

[Jive Turkey]

Originally Posted by INDY500

Yes, truly dangerous stuff there.

If we had more students taught "critical thinking skills" in school we'd have more people insisting on actually reading a piece of legislation before commenting on it and fewer people so willing to be spoon-fed propaganda like "Making It Illegal To Fail Science Students Who Argue Humans Co-Existed With Dinosaurs."

Hyuck hyuck. Tell me more about critical thinking, Indy. You're clearly the local expert. Tell me why this new piece of legislation is needed then. What you highlighted is what is currently referred to as "learning in school". You're the last person who should be throwing around the phrase "spoon fed". You routinely use non-words you hear on talk radio. You're just too insulated by willful ignorance to realize it

[Jive Turkey]

And if you're truly interested in critical thought, you'd realize your little highlighted sections are carefully and intentionally worded so as not to come off as "religious". "oh we're just interested in thoughtful discussion, folks. No Jesus to see here". It's wedge strategy and nothing more

[bono_212]

Originally Posted by Jive Turkey

Hyuck hyuck. Tell me more about critical thinking, Indy. You're clearly the local expert

While the major lesson learned here tonight for me is to not post my very heartfelt feelings while on my cell phone and therefore not as poignantly, I really want to know why you feel that if my child does not believe in scientific evolutionary theory they should be forced to pretend like they do for the sake of science class?

If there is a question that states "What does the theory of evolution say?" I see no problem in a student being forced answer that question or be penalized. But I do not think that a student should be asked to say emphatically that evolution is fact. I don't believe that that is right to force a child who is raised in a way that does not support those beliefs to believe it themselves. That's just as bad as forcing your religion on someone else

[PhilsFan]

What if your kid doesn't believe that Pearl Harbor happened?

[digitize]

Originally Posted by bono_212

While the major lesson learned here tonight for me is to not post my very heartfelt feelings while on my cell phone and therefore not as poignantly, I really want to know why you feel that if my child does not believe in scientific evolutionary theory they should be forced to pretend like they do for the sake of science class?

Perhaps because it's a science class, and, as long as the powers that be have ruled that children should learn science, then that science should be actual science? If we want to teach unscientifically developed theories about the world that contradict theories developed using the scientific method, that's great (well, no it's not), but it shouldn't be called science. Perhaps the right should argue for science itself to have a reduced role in education, in favor of faith, but that sounds bad.

[LemonMelon]

For the record, in 17 years of schooling, I've never once been asked whether or not I believe in the theory of evolution. It was never a little button I had to press in order to pass. So I'm not sure why this is even an issue.