Pure, uneducated ignorance. Go religion!

[Jive Turkey]

Originally Posted by LemonMelon

Practically speaking, people aren't judged by whether or not they're good, they're judged by the belief system they accept and endorse.

this doesn't seem backward to you?

[anitram]

Originally Posted by LemonMelon

Practically speaking, people aren't judged by whether or not they're good, they're judged by the belief system they accept and endorse.

According to whom?

It's not what the majority of the world's Christians (i.e. Catholics) believe.

[anitram]

Originally Posted by Jive Turkey

this doesn't seem backward to you?

That is one of the largest reasons why I am an agnostic. I just really could not buy into that viewpoint at all. There are religions that don't hold that to be the case (anytime karma comes into play, really), but I've never really gone far enough down that path to know if it's for me or not.

[BVS]

Originally Posted by Jive Turkey

hahahahaha

When you actually start hanging around conversations long enough to make a point, I'll start respecting the things you say

And I would respect your conversations about religion if you weren't always getting the most basic aspects completely wrong.

[LemonMelon]

Originally Posted by Jive Turkey

this doesn't seem backward to you?

I put it rather simplistically; there are traditional Christian ideals (fruits of the Spirit) that a Christian should develop in time, but reaching some arbitrarily chosen human ideal isn't an end unto itself.

Originally Posted by anitram

According to whom?

The Epistles

Sometimes I forget that Catholics and Protestants actually read a similar book.

[Jive Turkey]

Originally Posted by BVS

And I would respect your conversations about religion if you weren't always getting the most basic aspects completely wrong.

I couldn't care less, bud. You're a joke

[LemonMelon]

Originally Posted by Jive Turkey

I couldn't care less, bud.

Then why are we talking about this

[Jive Turkey]

Originally Posted by LemonMelon

I put it rather simplistically; there are traditional Christian ideals (fruits of the Spirit) that a Christian should develop, but reaching some arbitrarily chosen human ideal isn't an end unto itself.

Contributing to the happiness and well being of others should be the only end. All the rest seems tacked on in order to make you believe you need something that you really don't.

[Jive Turkey]

Originally Posted by LemonMelon

Then why are we talking about this

I couldn't care less about BVS' "respect". Instead of actually keeping up with an argument, he goes into hiding, then throws around little comments when nothing of substance is being discussed. Worst poster on the site.... second worst

[BVS]

Originally Posted by Jive Turkey

I couldn't care less, bud.

I realize that. It doesn't matter to me either way if you want my respect or not, I'm just trying to point out to you that your arrogance is really unwarranted in these types of discussions. You just lack the knowledge. What iron horse is to a science thread you are to a thread on religion.

What you call hiding, I call having little to no time.

[LemonMelon]

Originally Posted by Jive Turkey

Contributing to the happiness and well being of others should be the only end. All the rest seems tacked on in order to make you believe you need something that you really don't.

Well, that's what I try to do. I've yet to find a reason why Christianity necessarily precludes contributing happiness to others, but that's probably because I have no interest in what other Christians do.

Originally Posted by Jive Turkey

I couldn't care less about BVS' "respect". Instead of actually keeping up with an argument, he goes into hiding, then throws around little comments when nothing of substance is being discussed. Worst poster on the site.... second worst

Sorz, misread. If we're going to have a religious debate, it's necessary to care about the particulars. Note the result of trying to project Protestant beliefs about grace onto Catholics.

I think I know who the first worst poster is.

Schloop-a-Doop must really hate atheists, they're so negative all the time.

[Jive Turkey]

Originally Posted by LemonMelon

Well, that's what I try to do. I've yet to find a reason why Christianity necessarily precludes contributing happiness to others, but that's probably because I have no interest in what other Christians do.

I think we could find lots of instances where being Christian has precluded other believers from contributing to the happiness of others. But like I said earlier, if more people practiced the way you appear to be, it would be a nicer world.

Sorz, misread. If we're going to have a religious debate, it's necessary to care about the particulars. Note the result of trying to project Protestant beliefs about grace onto Catholics.

Schloop-a-Doop must really hate atheists, they're so negative all the time.

Particulars are important, yes. Arguing over semantics is kinda boring though. Especially when considering the original comment about Mormonism (way back when) was taken completely in the wrong context. My remarks about them taking out ads and handing out books was meant to be in stark contrast with what we'd have if the musical was called Book of Mohammed. There would be guaranteed deaths over it. Instead, we get charming behaviour (some people here would have you believe that all religions are equally violent, however. But then they'd disappear for 4 pages)

[Jive Turkey]

Originally Posted by LemonMelon

I think I know who the first worst poster is.

You might be surprised...

[LemonMelon]

Yeah, this has gone way off topic, into the land of religious semantics that I absolutely cannot stand. I actually used to frequent a Christian forum until I realized that the shit they argued about on there was so insignificant they might as well have blown the bandwith on GIFs of paint drying.

Originally Posted by Jive Turkey

You might be surprised...

[anitram]

I find semantics to be tedious as well.

I pointed out the difference between Protestant and Catholic thought/belief in this instance because I think it is central to the debate.

When you consider major world religions on the whole, the majority of believers actually do not believe that they are saved by belief alone. I think even a person like Jive who is not at all religious would probably recognize that there is a significant difference between believing in grace and karma...not that I'm implying that one has resulted in a better world here on earth than the other. Sadly.

[Jive Turkey]

Originally Posted by BVS

I realize that. It doesn't matter to me either way if you want my respect or not, I'm just trying to point out to you that your arrogance is really unwarranted in these types of discussions. You just lack the knowledge. What iron horse is to a science thread you are to a thread on religion.

What you call hiding, I call having little to no time.

I've got plenty of knowledge. You just don't have the wit or intellect to keep up. You're a slogan machine.

And if it's not hiding maybe stay the fuck out instead of popping your little head back in after the topic changes. Funny that you have no time when you're asked direct questions, but all the time in the world to shit on easy targets like Indy. And lets be honest, you post in FYM probably more than anyone else. You've got plenty of time

[Jive Turkey]

Originally Posted by anitram

When you consider major world religions on the whole, the majority of believers actually do not believe that they are saved by belief alone. I think even a person like Jive who is not at all religious would probably recognize that there is a significant difference between believing in grace and karma...not that I'm implying that one has resulted in a better world here on earth than the other. Sadly.

I honestly believe most people are inherently good people, religious or not

[BVS]

Originally Posted by Jive Turkey

I've got plenty of knowledge.

That wasn't any kind of slogan, you had a major tenant of Christianity flat out wrong, it had nothing to do with semantics. There is a big distinction made in Christianity between sin and good.

Originally Posted by Jive Turkey

And if it's not hiding maybe stay the fuck out instead of popping your little head back in after the topic changes. Funny that you have no time when you're asked direct questions, but all the time in the world to shit on easy targets like Indy. And lets be honest, you post in FYM probably more than anyone else. You've got plenty of time

My apologies if you asked me anything in this thread that I didn't answer. I've been posting a lot less in Interference lately.

[Jive Turkey]

Originally Posted by BVS

That wasn't any kind of slogan, you had a major tenant of Christianity flat out wrong, it had nothing to do with semantics. There is a big distinction made in Christianity between sin and good.

it absolutely was (and still is ) semantics. There's a direct connection between sin and the quality of the person (call it 'goodness', call it what you want). I didn't get anything wrong. And this is boring as fuck, but if you'd like to hang your hat on it, I'll throw you a bone. You rarely get one of those and this is pretty goddamn minor in the grand scheme of things.

Boring ass, worthless point conceded to BVS, you guys.

My apologies if you asked me anything in this thread that I didn't answer. I've been posting a lot less in Interference lately.

You know exactly what I'm talking about. Dont 'play' stupid

[anitram]

Originally Posted by Jive Turkey

I honestly believe most people are inherently good people, religious or not

Interesting.

I think most people try or strive to be good most of the time. And that is something that is innate and unrelated to religious practice or dogma.