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#681 | ||
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: California
Posts: 4,052
Local Time: 06:23 PM
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My point is that the exponential growth in technology will not only remove the limited resource problem from the equation - it will allow greater opportunity for everyone to acquire an in-depth education and vetted information. These arenas are not controlled by the rich, but by the bright minds in college labs, grandma's basement, and the local cafe. |
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#682 | |
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: NYC
Posts: 5,741
Local Time: 09:23 PM
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#683 | ||
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: California
Posts: 4,052
Local Time: 06:23 PM
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RIP, the Middle Class: 1946-2013 Quote:
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#684 | |
Blue Crack Supplier
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 33,247
Local Time: 09:23 PM
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very interesting article. this was a good take-away:
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while capitalism might be more or less a "natural" state, maybe, debatably, a strong middle class has to be created and fashioned into existence. |
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#685 | |
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: California
Posts: 4,052
Local Time: 06:23 PM
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It's unfortunate that both parties claim to be all about the middle class, yet neither have done much to protect it since the 40's... We need to start electing people FROM the middle class in order to make a difference. The problem is, they can't get the funding (nor do we really want them to) to start a campaign. Maybe as Social Media replaces TV, we will see some changes in this area. |
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#686 |
Blue Crack Addict
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: South Philadelphia
Posts: 19,218
Local Time: 09:23 PM
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Which brings us back to Citizens United.
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#687 | |
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: California
Posts: 4,052
Local Time: 06:23 PM
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Is this still law?
Tillman Act of 1907 Quote:
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#688 | |
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: California
Posts: 4,052
Local Time: 06:23 PM
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#689 | |
Blue Crack Supplier
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 33,247
Local Time: 09:23 PM
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more thoughts on this topic:
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#690 |
Blue Crack Addict
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NY
Posts: 18,877
Local Time: 09:23 PM
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The Democrats have also been generally poor when it comes to corporate regulation.
I went to a conference recently on the trends in anti-corruption and anti-bribery legislation and I found it interesting that the real leaders, the first nation to enact such laws, was the US, in 1977. That is probably very surprising to people of today, as the US would certainly not be at the forefront. But think about it - the US took a leadership position on this, lobbied hard within the OECD and the end result was that the other western nations followed suit. It was remarkable, and it was really for the best. The comment made at the conference by the (American) speaker was "that was accomplished because we had a much more liberal government than the one today." |
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#691 |
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: California
Posts: 4,052
Local Time: 06:23 PM
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While I'm not disputing this - I've seen some conflicting numbers. I didn't see any data supporting this (again, I don't doubt that it's true...but data certainly helps when making such a strong claim).
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#692 |
ONE
love, blood, life Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: New York / Dallas / Austin
Posts: 14,076
Local Time: 07:23 PM
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If what you've seen are numbers showing that most fortunes in the US are self-made rather than inherited, that is (to my knowledge) true. But there are massively important advantages that a wealthy upbringing brings to future wealth, other than directly inherited fortunes. I, for instance, don't expect to inherit buckets of money from my parents. But they could afford to live in areas with strong schools that really helped to foster a strong motivation in me that I might not have gotten otherwise. I am just theorizing here, but I think that growing up in an area where people grow up and make money, rather than being continually trapped in poverty, helps to demonstrate what can be done to make money, and incentivize doing those things. So I absolutely think that the upper-middle class lifestyle that my parents are able to afford will help me "inherit" in a less direct sense. And it's kind of sad that things work that way.
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#693 | |
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: California
Posts: 4,052
Local Time: 06:23 PM
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Perhaps this is where much of the anger is coming from - especially those that grew up in the middle class and checked off all the "middle class" requirements to at least stay in the middle class (if not move up into the upper middle class) - only to find that it's much more difficult for them than for their parents. In my case, like you, I grew up in what many would consider the upper-middle class. After some military service (in which I remain a Reserve Officer) to "break free" from my parents I went to school (eventually earned a degree in Management of Information Systems and then an MBA), and actively pursued jobs that built my resume. Yet - after all of that, I still don't own a home even though my wife and I make just over $250,000 per year - which even in Orange County is in the top 2-3% of household incomes according to irs.gov. Why? Because the price of a home compared to average income is SO FAR out of whack I refuse to pay it (even though my wife REALLY wants us to buy). But I do have a neighbor that somehow bought a million dollar home next to us working as a maintenance man at COSTCO. Now, I'm not saying I deserve the house more than my neighbor. What I'm saying is that he used a credit scheme to get into his first home and "traded up" when he got some equity from the boom like so many others. The problem is - with everyone using funky credit schemes to get an asset, that asset will artificially inflate (just like college). If/when we return to conventional measures of price to income - I should be able to "afford" a home priced in the top 2-3% of my area (of course I'm conservative and would still choose something more modest than the top 2-3%, but I don't have that choice). And here'e the thing - let's say I just bite the bullet and buy something well within my means based on my income - let's say a $500,000 house - I just know it will tank 50% when prices return to the historical baseline - which would be 1999 prices plus inflation adjustment. Happy wife or not - I just can't afford to throw $250,000 away...hence, I'm a "2 percenter" that can't "afford" a home. If I am an upper-middle class employed citizen with a post-graduate degree and 20 years of solid professional experience having these complaints - it must be horrendously difficult for a young person with that newly minted degree expecting to step right into the middle class life that was promised. Of course - if they're willing to take on a mountain of debt and pay double the price - then they can actually "finance the dream" - at least for awhile. |
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#694 | |
Blue Crack Supplier
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 33,247
Local Time: 09:23 PM
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this is absolutely true. there's no question that people from all sorts of circumstance can and do succeed. however, it's false to say that "anyone" can succeed, or even that smart, ambitious people always do succeed. often, they don't. and taking it one step further, we'd all like to believe in a just world. we want to believe the good are rewarded and the bad are punished. we want to believe that if we make good decisions and work hard that things will work out for us. sometimes, that isn't the case. and when we repeat the mantra that people rise and fall solely on their own merit we're really alleviating our own insecurities and attempting to exert some sort of control on a universe that has no interest in fairness or justice. so it's up to use to make it a little bit more fair, a little bit more just, and to remind ourselves of our common humanity, and common vulnerability. |
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#695 | |
Blue Crack Supplier
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 33,247
Local Time: 09:23 PM
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i certainly don't know any more than the info you've given us, but i can't think that California real estate, particularly in the OC, is a bad investment. i can't imagine it's going to crash again to that extent. |
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#696 | |
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: California
Posts: 4,052
Local Time: 06:23 PM
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Maybe everything will ride the inflation wave - and incomes and prices will return to their normal ratio. I do understand that CA will always cost more than most places, especially OC. But it is still way off the historical trend. In the end, my wife may win...I'm just ticked that that I have to pay almost 10 times more than my dad did if I wanted to live in the same house in Irvine (or equivalent) - even though he made about 1/2 what I make now. |
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#697 |
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: NYC
Posts: 5,741
Local Time: 09:23 PM
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Sometimes success can really be about luck and knowing the right people, especially today when networking is more vital than ever. This could be why older generations can't grasp the idea of not anyone can succeed, because they had it easier
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#698 |
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: California
Posts: 4,052
Local Time: 06:23 PM
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#699 |
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: NYC
Posts: 5,741
Local Time: 09:23 PM
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Hey, even I had it easier when I graduated college in 2004. I got my first real world job simply by submitting my resume. When I tried to do the same when I got my MA in 2008, I got nowhere because the way you go about getting even an interview has completely changed. Some of it is technology, some of it economical, and others. I'm still trying to adjust to the whole networking, social media, innovation methods that are needed to have anyone glance at your resume. When people ask me how I got my first job (which was at a major news outlet), I literally say, "the old fashioned way".
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#700 | |
ONE
love, blood, life Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: New York / Dallas / Austin
Posts: 14,076
Local Time: 07:23 PM
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Quote:
Regarding real estate, I do think that your situation is either somewhat of an anomaly, or perhaps the worst example exemplifying a pattern. I do share your fear that real estate prices are getting questionably high given economic fundamentals at the moment. And college... good God, that's insane. I am incredibly lucky to be going to a school with inexpensive tuition, and to be paying for the vast majority of my expenses with scholarship money, and to be getting a worthwhile degree from it. But so many have none of those three blessings, and that is part of what scares me about what economic shape my generation is getting stuck in. |
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