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Old 10-08-2011, 07:49 PM   #21
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As Philsfan points out, the Tea Party is orchestrated by shadowy puppetmasters whereas the Wall Street protests spring from a genuine grassroots protest movement. Any amount of propaganda from fans of the corporatist far right can't change that essential fact.
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Old 10-09-2011, 11:06 AM   #22
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Are you going to camp out until the dead of winter sets in and your numbers dwindle to nothing? Or are you going to turn this into a real political movement and send a clear message to Washington that we're not going to sit idly by and watch you destroy what's left of this country and our future?
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Old 10-09-2011, 11:25 AM   #23
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Old 10-09-2011, 04:32 PM   #24
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Then its fair to say Occupy is now propped up by Big Labor.
Do we even have Big Labor in this country anymore? Serious question.
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Old 10-09-2011, 07:20 PM   #25
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Do we even have Big Labor in this country anymore? Serious question.
Sure, who do think bankrolls the Democratic Party?
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Old 10-09-2011, 07:54 PM   #26
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Sure, who do think bankrolls the Democratic Party?
By saying "bankrolls" you are grossly distorting the financial reality to fit with your preconceived notion of who runs national politics in the U.S.


via: Interest Groups | OpenSecrets

Also contained in those statistics: why you can be certain the bailouts would have still occurred under President McCain and Vice President Sarah Palin.
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Old 10-09-2011, 08:40 PM   #27
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Sure, who do think bankrolls the Democratic Party?
Goldman Sachs, Citigroup and JP Morgan Chase were three of the top four contributors to Barack Obama's presidential campaign.
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Old 10-09-2011, 09:34 PM   #28
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By saying "bankrolls" you are grossly distorting the financial reality to fit with your preconceived notion of who runs national politics in the U.S.


via: Interest Groups | OpenSecrets

Also contained in those statistics: why you can be certain the bailouts would have still occurred under President McCain and Vice President Sarah Palin.
Oh for Pete's sake.

Top All-Time Donors, 1989-2012 | OpenSecrets
Quote:
Total '89-'12 Dem % Repub % Tilt
1 ActBlue $55,093,735 99% 0%
2 American Fedn of State, County & Municipal Employees $45,820,853 94% 1%
3 AT&T Inc $41,660,404 44% 54%
4 National Assn of Realtors $40,020,510 47% 49%
5 Service Employees International Union $37,151,289 75% 2%
6 National Education Assn $36,433,925 81% 5%
7 American Assn for Justice $34,328,421 89% 8%
8 Intl Brotherhood of Electrical Workers $33,824,355 97% 2%
9 Laborers Union $31,640,067 89% 7%
10 American Federation of Teachers $31,342,403 91% 0%
11 Teamsters Union $30,858,309 89% 6%
12 Carpenters & Joiners Union $30,629,437 86% 9%
13 Communications Workers of America $29,952,424 94% 0%

14 American Medical Assn $27,490,855 39% 59%
15 United Auto Workers $27,344,832 98% 0%
16 United Food & Commercial Workers Union $27,094,834 93% 0%
17 National Auto Dealers Assn $26,762,492 32% 67%
18 Machinists & Aerospace Workers Union $26,747,874 98% 1%
19 United Parcel Service $24,667,293 37% 62%
20 American Bankers Assn $24,510,714 39% 60%
21 National Beer Wholesalers Assn $23,904,782 34% 65%
22 National Assn of Home Builders $23,358,164 36% 63%
23 Altria Group $23,200,871 26% 73%
24 National Assn of Letter Carriers $22,188,393 85% 10%
25 Goldman Sachs $21,084,295 60% 39%
26 AFL-CIO $19,487,579 92% 4%
27 Credit Union National Assn $19,417,786 48% 51%
28 Sheet Metal Workers Union $18,955,848 95% 2%
29 International Assn of Fire Fighters $18,533,507 78% 17%
30 National Rifle Assn $18,431,521 17% 82%
31 Plumbers & Pipefitters Union $18,128,935 94% 5%
32 FedEx Corp $17,741,022 41% 58%
33 American Dental Assn $17,617,497 46% 53%
34 Lockheed Martin $17,368,571 44% 55%
35 American Hospital Assn $17,161,509 53% 46%
36 Operating Engineers Union $17,133,140 85% 13%
37 Verizon Communications $17,032,942 39% 60%
38 Air Line Pilots Assn $16,784,447 83% 15%
39 Citigroup Inc $16,743,163 46% 52%
40 Natl Assn/Insurance & Financial Advisors $16,305,019 42% 57%
41 Microsoft Corp $15,845,587 47% 52%
42 General Electric $15,494,796 48% 51%
43 AFLAC Inc $15,348,117 45% 54%
44 United Transportation Union $14,794,360 88% 11%
45 Blue Cross/Blue Shield $14,759,730 38% 61%
46 JPMorgan Chase & Co $14,702,960 46% 52%
47 United Steelworkers $14,632,651 99% 0%
48 Ironworkers Union $14,459,298 92% 6%
49 Union Pacific Corp $14,184,110 25% 74%
50 Bank of America $14,105,833 44% 54%
51 Deloitte LLP $13,985,975 33% 66%
52 American Postal Workers Union $13,669,853 96% 3%
53 American Institute of CPAs $13,596,290 42% 57%
54 Boeing Co $13,578,033 46% 53%
55 Ernst & Young $13,556,771 44% 55%
56 National Rural Electric Cooperative Assn $13,518,905 50% 48%
57 PricewaterhouseCoopers $13,374,731 36% 63%
58 Pfizer Inc $13,214,797 31% 68%
59 Time Warner $13,201,117 67% 32%
60 Reynolds American $12,930,839 24% 75%
61 Morgan Stanley $12,323,070 44% 55%
62 National Air Traffic Controllers Assn $12,238,018 79% 20%
63 Northrop Grumman $11,950,115 43% 56%
64 General Dynamics $11,534,702 47% 52%
65 BellSouth Corp $11,520,559 46% 53%
66 Anheuser-Busch $11,440,887 48% 51%
67 Natl Active & Retired Fed Employees Assn $11,351,500 77% 22%
68 Honeywell International $11,281,063 45% 54%
69 GlaxoSmithKline $10,719,179 30% 69%
70 Associated Builders & Contractors $10,566,671 1% 98%
71 Raytheon Co $10,550,895 46% 53%
72 American Crystal Sugar $10,518,664 61% 38%
73 National Restaurant Assn $10,507,445 16% 82%
74 Exxon Mobil $10,483,933 11% 88%
75 Newsweb Corp $10,448,446 90% 0%
76 Chevron $10,387,093 24% 75%
77 Human Rights Campaign $10,371,376 90% 9%
78 American Health Care Assn $10,280,360 52% 47%
79 American Academy of Ophthalmology $10,262,683 52% 47%
80 American Society of Anesthesiologists $10,140,337 42% 56%
81 Indep Insurance Agents & Brokers/America $10,078,864 39% 60%
82 Koch Industries $9,831,715 11% 88%
83 National Cmte to Preserve Social Security & Medicare $9,813,629 81% 18%
84 Saban Capital Group $9,782,637 99% 0%
85 KPMG LLP $9,732,748 31% 68%
86 American Optometric Assn $9,705,013 59% 40%
87 UBS AG $9,618,593 38% 61%
88 Associated General Contractors $9,553,912 14% 84%
89 Comcast Corp $9,494,857 53% 46%
90 Wal-Mart Stores $9,455,444 28% 71%
91 Securities Industry & Financial Mkt Assn $9,286,123 43% 55%
92 American Maritime Officers $9,275,272 47% 51%
93 New York Life Insurance $9,260,808 50% 49%
94 Transport Workers Union $9,002,599 95% 4%
95 CSX Corp $8,861,762 36% 63%
96 Eli Lilly & Co $8,853,982 30% 68%
97 Seafarers International Union $8,840,765 84% 14%
98 Painters & Allied Trades Union $8,732,370 87% 11%
99 National Cmte for an Effective Congress $8,695,668 99% 0%
100 Massachusetts Mutual Life Insurance $8,626,348 39% 60%
101 MetLife Inc $8,625,233 54% 45%
102 Freddie Mac $8,615,809 43% 56%
103 Southern Co $8,566,765 34% 65%
104 National Fedn of Independent Business $8,552,330 7% 92%
105 News Corp $8,504,303 57% 42%
106 Walt Disney Co $8,396,795 66% 33%
107 Credit Suisse Group $8,359,647 42% 56%
108 American Financial Group $8,116,521 24% 70%
109 General Motors $8,019,295 37% 62%
110 UST Inc $7,989,027 22% 77%
111 National Assn of Broadcasters $7,971,034 46% 53%
112 Amalgamated Transit Union $7,912,934 93% 6%
113 American Council of Life Insurers $7,822,808 39% 60%
114 Aircraft Owners & Pilots Assn $7,773,567 45% 54%
115 Burlington Northern Santa Fe Corp $7,666,279 32% 67%
116 Amway/Alticor Inc $7,662,249 0% 99%
117 Marine Engineers Beneficial Assn $7,599,205 74% 24%
118 American Airlines $7,311,757 47% 52%
119 Ford Motor Co $7,091,934 36% 63%
120 MCI Inc $7,066,484 48% 51%
121 American Trucking Assns $6,932,575 31% 68%
122 Prudential Financial $6,870,275 51% 48%
123 Archer Daniels Midland $6,748,793 50% 49%
124 AIG $6,644,212 53% 46%
125 DLA Piper $6,521,342 58% 40%
126 MBNA Corp $6,360,271 19% 80%
127 Bristol-Myers Squibb $6,349,034 22% 77%
128 Merrill Lynch $6,348,283 35% 63%
129 Fannie Mae $5,976,302 51% 48%
130 Enron Corp $5,340,190 29% 70%
131 EMILY's List $5,324,269 95% 0%
132 BP $5,162,045 30% 69%
133 Lehman Brothers $4,879,853 48% 51%
134 Wachovia Corp $4,870,072 26% 72%
135 MGM Resorts International $4,665,379 43% 50%
136 Andersen $4,585,941 38% 61%
137 Vivendi $3,943,123 64% 35%
138 Skadden, Arps et al $3,666,043 74% 25%
139 Bear Stearns $3,381,925 54% 45%
140 Club for Growth $1,549,205 0% 41%

Based on data released by the FEC on April 25, 2011.

10 of the top 15 top donors are labor unions. 9% is the largest amount any one of them gave the GOP.
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Old 10-09-2011, 09:34 PM   #29
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Why do I care about 1989? I even used the word "anymore." We're talking about today's economy. Let's have a little bit more relevant information here.
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Old 10-09-2011, 09:58 PM   #30
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Why do I care about 1989? I even used the word "anymore." We're talking about today's economy. Let's have a little bit more relevant information here.


3 or the top 5 were unions. Now they're jumping into Occupy Wall St
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Old 10-09-2011, 09:59 PM   #31
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Why do I care about 1989? I even used the word "anymore." We're talking about today's economy. Let's have a little bit more relevant information here.

1989, a number
another summer

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Old 10-10-2011, 02:57 PM   #32
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The reality is that both the Tea Party and this Occupy Wall Street movement were both 'grassroots' from the beginning. And then the corporate Republican fat-cats got the wheels in motion and 'appropriated' the Tea Party and they have been an arm of the Republican Party ever since. And now the same will happen with the Wall Street thing.

This happens because of the two party corporate monopoly.
There can't be a real viable 'outsiders' choice, a third rail, etc.
And it is so easily done precisely because of two things:
1) All the real power is in so few hands, and those hands want Coke vs Pepsi as the status quo. Simple strategy. It's easier to beat one opponent than several.
2) The discourse - as evidenced in this thread -always takes a Coke vs Pepsi route. Even among people that are aware of it...they can't help but do it.

It's actually very uncomplicated.

A viable outside movement can't even be seen as non-partisan.
Because the tools of opposition will always effectively be able to sell that outside movement as simply being supported by the other side. Just like how many of you that still believe the Tea Party was always a Republican ploy. You're part of the problem.

And THAT more than anything else is why we are truly fucked. Even the people that are active and engage with issues and are wise to the corporate machinations are still easily sucked in by sheer partisan politics.
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Old 10-10-2011, 03:49 PM   #33
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It may be time to really overhaul our system. Little by little, the American Republic is dying. It's being torn apart by brutal partisan fighting - there's no mutual respect and disagreement just hate filled rants, corporations that want to gut the economy to increase their bottom line, the 1 %ers, and a legislative body that is comprised of people so far removed from the average American they might as well be representing Mars. To top it off we have a population that thinks meaningless sports statistics and reality show stars are more important then knowing the policies of the people who are guiding this country toward the edge of a cliff.

- We need proportional representation in this country...smaller parties will have a fighting chance.

- Make it a criminal offense to offshore jobs. You want to send American workers overseas and weaken the economy and country? Go a head, but the US Gov't can now seize your assets.

- Party over country is treason. Want to hold the economy hostage? Pay the price. You think debt is a serious problem? Address the root cause: Out of control spending and 3 decades of shitty financial policy- the 1%ers have to pay their fair share.
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Old 10-10-2011, 04:05 PM   #34
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The reality is that both the Tea Party and this Occupy Wall Street movement were both 'grassroots' from the beginning. And then the corporate Republican fat-cats got the wheels in motion and 'appropriated' the Tea Party and they have been an arm of the Republican Party ever since. And now the same will happen with the Wall Street thing.
Inclined to agree, though it does seem undeniable that the Tea Party was overwhelmingly dominated by lifelong Republicans from its inception, while Occupy Wall Street seems likewise dominated by lifelong Democrats (for what "lifelong" is worth when most of them are so young). If OWS does continue to grow and evolve, personally I'd love to see it take the form of a nonpartisan citizens' movement to end corporate lobbyist control over Washington via a constitutional amendment, but I acknowledge that's not likely given the hyperpartisan backdrop. More likely it'll fizzle out, or perhaps become a fully co-opted appendage of the Democratic party with its own Congressional caucuses, PACs and whatnot, like the Tea Party now has.

But I don't think the ordinary American, the average liberal or conservative, requires all that much 'brainwashing' from MoveOn or Koch Industries or whomever to dismiss grassroots movements before they even get anywhere. They're already programmed to see the caricatures (bitter old racist rednecks; clueless hippie pothead riffraff) and when the cameras inevitably note the presence of some colorful examplars of that type, that's all they really need to dismiss it; any subsequently learned 'facts' are just ammo.
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Old 10-10-2011, 08:04 PM   #35
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And it's one, two, three
What are we fighting for?
Good question.
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Old 10-10-2011, 08:36 PM   #36
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The US needs to get rid of the revolving door between the private sector and business. You basically run for Congress to set yourself up for a lush lobbying or consulting gig after your term is done.
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Old 10-10-2011, 09:07 PM   #37
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3 or the top 5 were unions.


how was your weekend?
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Old 10-10-2011, 10:05 PM   #38
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how was your weekend?
Ha, Good point But in my defense it took all of three minutes to lookup.
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Old 10-10-2011, 11:58 PM   #39
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Ha, Good point But in my defense it took all of three minutes to lookup.

you know who to thank for having the free time to do so.

how was your minimum 2-weeks vacation this year?
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Old 10-11-2011, 06:59 AM   #40
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4 weeks over here in the UK, but then we do live in the great communist state of Europe.
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