Pro-tax Occupation Protests Held Across U.S. (O.W.S. Thread) - Page 16 - U2 Feedback

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Old 11-04-2011, 05:14 PM   #301
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Good work by that reporter. Sad answer by Moore.
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Old 11-04-2011, 06:09 PM   #302
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Occupy Wall Street Has Jumped the Shark | RedState

Occupy Wall Street Has Jumped the Shark



Like the writer, after some initial posts I sat out a few weeks to see if OWS could pull themselves into a legitimate political movement. Just hearing the spokesmen for Occupy Oakland talk prior to the events of Wed was enough to convince me the answer was no. The mainstream media can cheerlead and explain away only so much of this.

It's not just the violence and destruction of personal property that will disgust 99% of the 99%, but the Marxist rhetoric and sheer stupidity of so much of it:



Shock!! The Peoples Court found them guilty.

Too bad, we face some huge hurdles as a country. I too think the country is not headed in the right direction. I too would like to see the cozy relationship between government and corporations curtailed. We could use some fresh ideas.

Vandalism, Marxism and street theatre are not the solutions 99% of Americans are looking for however. Then again, maybe that's all the Left has to offer at this point. I'd love to be proven wrong on that point.

Wow, generalize much? Anacharists do represent what OWS is about. The camps and marches have been peaceful for the most part except for Wed. in Oakland when a few anarchists ran away with it and got violent. Weren't you the one whose head exploded when people were accusing the TPer's as being racist becasue quite a few nut jobs joined the ranks with hateful signs of President Obama?
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Old 11-04-2011, 06:11 PM   #303
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Sounds like the anarchists who helped turn the Seattle WTO protests into the Seattle WTO riots.
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Old 11-04-2011, 06:17 PM   #304
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Wow, generalize much? Anacharists do represent what OWS is about. The camps and marches have been peaceful for the most part except for Wed. in Oakland when a few anarchists ran away with it and got violent. Weren't you the one whose head exploded when people were accusing the TPer's as being racist becasue quite a few nut jobs joined the ranks with hateful signs of President Obama?
Take it easy on him, he just found an article he liked on one of his GOP websites and decided it fit his preconceived narrative well enough.
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Old 11-04-2011, 06:29 PM   #305
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Is there truly no way that a centrist candidate/party that takes the best ideas from both the right and left make inroads in the U.S.? That really is the only way the U.S. can get itself out of this mess right now. Neither party seems to want to act with the best interests of all Americans in mind, and nothing will ever change for the better as long as that's the case.
Aren't the Democrats basically centre-right in nature? They sure as hell ain't left from what I have seen.
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Old 11-04-2011, 06:59 PM   #306
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It is funny to see tea party folk get upset over a bit of violence when they are named after a quite major law breaking offence way back when.
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Old 11-04-2011, 08:37 PM   #307
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Wow, generalize much? Anacharists do represent what OWS is about. The camps and marches have been peaceful for the most part except for Wed. in Oakland when a few anarchists ran away with it and got violent. Weren't you the one whose head exploded when people were accusing the TPer's as being racist becasue quite a few nut jobs joined the ranks with hateful signs of President Obama?
Let's set the vandalism aside then.

Americans aren't interested in general strikes, blocked bridges and roads, Marxist or anti-capitalist economics, anonymous protesters wearing masks or scarves, contempt for police, 60's nostalgia, or the lawlessness of "occupying" something that isn't yours.
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Old 11-04-2011, 09:06 PM   #308
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Why are more people not interested in Marxist or anti-capitalist economics? I wouldn't consider myself a great follower of Marx but he wasn't thick and a lot of what he discussed makes a decent amount of sense, as do the many writings Adam Smith et al. and all who followed along the capitalistic path. But capitalism is a weird kind of holy grail to have when it is something of no particular moral value. A certain amount of contempt for authority I believe to be reasonably healthy (but then part of that is my background being from Belfast), the police are an extension of the government no? Which a whole range of people distrust? (I'm not saying police are inherently bad and I fully recognise the need for them and it's a tough old job.)

Is the social contract between the government and the people broken when enough people distrust or believe the authority that exists in the land is against them?

I know the situation in the states is different to what it is here and as a nation you are more to the right than we are in Europe, that's fine and you do lots better in the states than we have ever done. I do though think on a global scale we need to think harder on how we put democracy into practice, as I don't think what we have now is the best it can be.
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Old 11-04-2011, 09:22 PM   #309
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Why are more people not interested in Marxist or anti-capitalist economics?
Because it is evil and they murder puppies in broad daylight and they hate FREEDOM™?
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Old 11-04-2011, 09:25 PM   #310
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I keep getting images of Marx hovering over cradles. Engels was a nice bloke by all accounts though, he was a funny dude, Marx kinda lacked humour.
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Old 11-04-2011, 09:29 PM   #311
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Marx had a pretty awesome beard, you gotta give him that.
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Old 11-04-2011, 09:46 PM   #312
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I find it quite cool that I live in a city (Manchester) where Marx and Engels bashed out some of Das Kapital. They were a dynamic duo.
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Old 11-04-2011, 09:55 PM   #313
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Americans aren't interested in general strikes, blocked bridges and roads, Marxist or anti-capitalist economics, anonymous protesters wearing masks or scarves, contempt for police, 60's nostalgia, or the lawlessness of "occupying" something that isn't yours.
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Old 11-04-2011, 10:26 PM   #314
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Marx kinda lacked humour.
His brothers were hysterical.


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Old 11-04-2011, 11:47 PM   #315
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Triumph The Insult Comic Dog Occupies Wall Street

The funniest thing you'll see all month.
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Old 11-05-2011, 01:48 AM   #316
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Aren't the Democrats basically centre-right in nature? They sure as hell ain't left from what I have seen.
In Europe, in some countries, Democrats are seen/perceptioned as right, and Republicans as exteme-right. Most policies chosen by american Democrat Party and respective politicians if they were implemented in european countries would be perceptioned by people here in Europe as right (even as extreme-right) policies.

It's all a question of political marketing. For example, most european parties called "Socialist Party" (or "Labourist Party") aren't socialist at all. Portuguese, Spanish, French, Slovenian, Greek "Socialist Party" are, most of all, parties of the Third Way and, in some cases, they're social-democrat parties.
In Portugal there's also a party called Social-Democrat Party, but I guess they have no idea that social-democracy is a center-left ideology and their party is a center-right party composed, not by social-democrats, but by Conservatives (in social way of living) and Liberalists (in economics).
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Old 11-05-2011, 02:09 AM   #317
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In Europe, in some countries, Democrats are seen/perceptioned as right, and Republicans as exteme-right. Most policies chosen by american Democrat Party and respective politicians if they were implemented in european countries would be perceptioned by people here in Europe as right (even as extreme-right) policies.

It's all a question of political marketing. For example, most european parties called "Socialist Party" (or "Labourist Party") aren't socialist at all. Portuguese, Spanish, French, Slovenian, Greek "Socialist Party" are, most of all, parties of the Third Way and, in some cases, they're social-democrat parties.
In Portugal there's also a party called Social-Democrat Party, but I guess they have no idea that social-democracy is a center-left ideology and their party is a center-right party composed, not by social-democrats, but by Conservatives (in social way of living) and Liberalists (in economics).
Ah yes, I get what you mean, we have the same thing going on in Australia, with the Liberal party being conservative and the Labor party being ... conservative, but not to the level of the former.
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Old 11-05-2011, 10:56 AM   #318
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Like Labour here under Tony Blair was pretty bang on centrist though they were the party of the left and unions etc, hence the branding of 'New Labour'. Now they are returning to their centre left fold.
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Old 11-05-2011, 12:53 PM   #319
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Like Labour here under Tony Blair was pretty bang on centrist though they were the party of the left and unions etc, hence the branding of 'New Labour'. Now they are returning to their centre left fold.
In fact, european opinion-makers say that Blair was the "firestarter" of the shift that Labourist, Social-democrat (that call them selves Socialist for marketing purposes) parties made from center-left to center/Third Way/emptiness in the 1990's/2000's.

These kind of parties now understand the mistake and are being forced to get back to their center-left origins. The problem is that many of these parties lost credit and are having trouble about being seen as center-left again.
In Germany, the SPD [Social-Democrat Party/center-left/no marketing in the name] had to turn center-left again and make real oposition to Merkel's "club". The pressure was so big and their loss of credibility was so big that, in some German states, to stop Merkel's party to get "there", SPD was forced to Govern in coalition with... The Green Ecologist Party (left/center-left) that had a huge boost in popularity (about from 8 to 20-24%).
In France, the PS spans so many and diverse kind of people (old fashion socialists, social-democrats, third way-ists, centrists, social-liberalists, etc) that is having lots of trouble to redefine it self. The only thing that saves PS and that will make it will 2012 elections is the huge loss of credibility that Sarkozy is having. If it wasn't for Sarkozy, french PS would lose again.
The same problem has the center-left italian party (they don't use "socialist", "communist", "social-democrat", "christian-democrat" terminologies there), but they'll will in 2012 only because Berlusconni is being held by a tiny string.
In Portugal, Greece and Spain, because of having been Third Way for a long time, and because of having been forced to implement severe austerity plans, pseudo-socialist parties are having very bad results whether in elections or in polls. In June, center-left lost the government and had only 28% (38% for center-right). In Spain, elections will happen next November 20th and PSOE will have its biggest defeat (30% against 47% of the right-wing party). The response is the shift to right governments again.
In Greece, opinion polls give only 19% to PASOK, which explains Papandreou's last actions these last 10 days. But Greece's situation is so complicated now that no one knows what's really gonna happen (there's even the possibility of an imminent coup d'État).

On the other hand, the "new left", the "neo-socialist", the ecologist and the "left confederations" are having an increasement of popularity. Examples:
- the Ecologists and the "Pirate" parties in Germany (19% and 9% in opinion polls, respectively);
- the Communists, the neo-Socialists and the Anti-Capitalist parties in Greece (14%, 9% and 4% in opinion polls, respectively, which represents the double or triple than what they had in 2009);
- the neo-socialists and the communists having a soft increase in popularity in France;
- the increasement of Socialists and Social-democrats in Denmark in recent elections, leading them to a coalition government and the shift from center-right to center-left.
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Old 11-05-2011, 01:26 PM   #320
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When your continent's political parties are made up of Socialists, neo-Socialists, Social-democrats, Greens, anti-Capitalist, third way-ists, social-liberalists and Communists...

...I now understand why you consider the Tea Party crazy.
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