Preemptive post: Virginia's governor election is NOT a reflection of Obama

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49-46 ?

46% is a pretty impressive showing for a 3rd party candidate.

It does look like the youth vote showed up in Maine.

I hope the no vote wins.
 
deep said:
49-46 ?

46% is a pretty impressive showing for a 3rd party candidate.

It does look like the youth vote showed up in Maine.

I hope the no vote wins.
Click to expand...




Maine isn't looking good -- looks to be a repeat of California.

i guess when you use children in peril in your ads, people have a gut emotional reaction.

we'll see what happens.
 
Irvine511 said:
the results from NY-23

make your intentional hyperbole

look misplaced.
Click to expand...


Not when you consider that

A. The Democrat ran as a Blue Dog moderate, arguably to the right of the Republican and
B. Hoffman was
1. A third party candidate
2. Entered the race very late
3. Was not endorsed by the Republican party "insiders and shakers" but still
a. forced the GOP candidate out of the race
b. and if not winning, lost in a very close race

Republicans take back the seat next year.
 
INDY500 said:
Not when you consider that

A. The Democrat ran as a Blue Dog moderate, arguably to the right of the Republican and
B. Hoffman was
1. A third party candidate
2. Entered the race very late
3. Was not endorsed by the Republican party "insiders and shakers" but still
a. forced the GOP candidate out of the race
b. and if not winning, lost in a very close race

Republicans take back the seat next year.
Click to expand...



but the Beck/Plain axis doesn't have nearly the bite they claim.

which, in many ways, is too bad for the White House.

the more they can paint the leaders of the GOP as batshit insane as Beck and Palin, the more the middle runs away from them.

also, the Bloomberg race should tell us that there's a strong anti-incumbent feeling out there which is far more indicative of the mood of the public -- everyone's unsettled, everyone's uneasy, and with 10% unemployment, debts, and two wars, it's quite understandable.

Obama remains quite popular, which makes the fixation on this as a "referendum" on Obama -- and, for the GOP, a way to frighten the "Blue Dogs" -- not just shallow, but wildly misleading.
 
Irvine511 said:
Maine isn't looking good -- looks to be a repeat of California.

i guess when you use children in peril in your ads, people have a gut emotional reaction.

we'll see what happens.
Click to expand...

I know the issue means a lot to you so I won't brag, but what now, 0 - 31.

I have no idea how the campaign was run in Maine, but if you bad-mouth the citizens tomorrow morning as intolerant or hateful, I promise you it will be 0 - 32 the next time it comes up.

Just some friendly advice.
 
Irvine511 said:
Maine isn't looking good -- looks to be a repeat of California.

i guess when you use children in peril in your ads, people have a gut emotional reaction.

we'll see what happens.
Click to expand...

If Maine goes the way of Prop 8 in CA
I hope there will be a boycott Maine movement.

I can't believe people can be so cruel.
 
INDY500 said:
I know the issue means a lot to you so I won't brag, but what now, 0 - 31.

I have now idea how the campaign was run in Maine, but if you bad-mouth the citizens tomorrow morning as intolerant or hateful, I promise you it will be 0 - 32 the next time it comes up.

Just some friendly advice.
Click to expand...

You seem to be celebrating bigotry.
 
INDY500 said:
I know the issue means a lot to you so I won't brag, but what now, 0 - 31.

I have no idea how the campaign was run in Maine, but if you bad-mouth the citizens tomorrow morning as intolerant or hateful, I promise you it will be 0 - 32 the next time it comes up.

Just some friendly advice.
Click to expand...



but, INDY, you are intolerant. :shrug: i'd like to vote on your marriage. i'd probably approve it, but it depends if it will be taught to children.


deep said:
If Maine goes the way of Prop 8 in CA
I hope there will be a boycott Maine movement.

I can't believe people can be so cruel.
Click to expand...



they are cruel.

did you see the ad campaign? it was all about "gay marriage being taught in schools." the *same* tactic used in CA.

it's deceitful, and low, and it's wrong.

it obviously is a way to eek out a win.
 
deep said:
You seem to be celebrating bigotry.
Click to expand...

That seems to be trendy these days...

Irvine511 said:
did you see the ad campaign? it was all about "gay marriage being taught in schools." the *same* tactic used in CA.

it's deceitful, and low, and it's wrong.

it obviously is a way to eek out a win.
Click to expand...

But it works on the uninformed. :shrug:

Maybe some day that generation will die off...
 
INDY500 said:
Democracy and self-determination actually.

"Bigotry" being only your analysis of the results.
Click to expand...



and if the civil rights movement were up to popular vote throughout the south in the 1960s? would that be democracy and self-determination?
 
BVS said:
Maybe some day that generation will die off...
Click to expand...



it's clear that we have more work to do to make our case.

i donated significant money (for me) to CA last year, am now kicking myself for not taking ME quite as seriously.
 
it seems like, 1) there might be a recount, and 2) New England's deep Catholicism came out to play in this.

clearly, as ever, religion is, again, one of the main(e) motivators.

i have to call it a night soon.

what's nice is that Portland -- easily one of the best places to live in the US -- went 74% against the amendment.
 
INDY500 said:
Exactly. I know I wake up each morning wondering "who can I hate today."
Click to expand...

no need to wonder

if you go to church

they tell you to hate 'sin'

and then they tell you what 'sin' is

and then they tell you who 'sins'.


then you can feel all self - righteous
and say it is just 'democracy and self-determination'.
 
on a happier note, it looks like the 'mos won in Washington State.

they pretty much get everything but the word, which makes some people feel a little less frightened that their children will be taught how to be gay in school, i suppose.
 
at least this Christie guy campaigned on the economic issues of government spending and jobs, instead of the typical conservative social issues of gay and immigrant bashing

It seems the Virginia winner did the same, these guys might not be that bad.
 
deep said:
no need to wonder

if you go to church

they tell you to hate 'sin'

and then they tell you what 'sin' is

and then they tell you who 'sins'.
Click to expand...
Which would be me.

then you can feel all self - righteous
Click to expand...

Not really as I only compare my life to Christ's. Kinda humbling actually.
and say it is just 'democracy and self-determination'.
Click to expand...
At least we agree on Calvinism.
 
deep said:
since you brought "the guy" up


please tell me what 'he' said about same sex people?


if you truly want to "compare" (i think you meant follow his example)
Click to expand...


I know what He said about sin. And I know what He said about the log in my own eye. Which is why I don't argue against same-sex marriage because I think homosexuals to be morally or civilly inferior to myself or heterosexuals in any way.
It has to do with what I, indy500, personally feel is the best thing for society, children and to guarantee generational cohesion. Which is a mother and a father as the nucleus of a family.

Maybe it's not hip or politically correct. But it is my personal belief and dictates how I vote.
 
INDY500 said:
I know what He said about sin. And I know what He said about the log in my own eye. Which is why I don't argue against same-sex marriage because I think homosexuals to be in morally or civilly inferior to myself or heterosexuals in any way.
It has to do with what I, indy500, personally feel is the best thing for society, children and to guarantee generational cohesion. Which is a mother and a father as the nucleus of a family.

Maybe it's not hip or politically correct. But it is my personal belief.
Click to expand...

I have a lot on personal feelings about what is best for children and society.

I don't think children should be raised in homes with smokers, boozers or people that corrupt their minds with racist or bigoted beliefs.

I don't believe my beliefs should be imposed on others by a popular vote.

As for it being best for children to be raised by a mother and a father as the nucleus of a family. Would you advocate couples not be allowed to divorce?
Single parents have their children placed with a foster couple until they get married? Single straight people not being allowed to adopt children.
Would you want to vote on all of the above and make laws to those effects.

I have indulged your 'best for children' concept for the sake of this discussion.
 
I'd still love to see the results of the 13th, 14th, and 15th Amendments prohibiting slavery and granting black men voting and equal rights (remembering that female suffrage was still yet to come, of course), if the North didn't make their passage a precondition for Confederate readmission into the Union. Can you imagine 19th century Southern white landowners (read: slaveholders) willingly voting to end slavery and to give their former slaves equal status to them?

Putting minority rights to a vote is immoral.
 
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