Political Correctness

[the iron horse]

"The reason every Marxist government in the history of the world turned massively repressive is not because they all had the misfortune of being hijacked by murderous thugs. It’s that the ideology itself prioritizes class justice over individual rights and makes no allowance for legitimate disagreement."

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer...usly-now.html#

[BVS]

How ironic in the wake of the far-right's latest whine of victimhood.


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[Diemen]

Originally Posted by the iron horse

"The reason every Marxist government in the history of the world turned massively repressive is not because they all had the misfortune of being hijacked by murderous thugs. It’s that the ideology itself prioritizes class justice over individual rights and makes no allowance for legitimate disagreement."

Okay.

I suppose that might be worrisome to those who think we're in danger of a Marxist takeover.

Back in reality, this is not a binary issue where you either see the value in class justice or individual rights, but never both.

[Oregoropa]

Liberal College Professors confess they are now afraid of their own student's sensitivities that if they say anything that veers from the Social Justice Warrior Code that they will be vilified.

Colleges are getting crazy. Read an anecdote of a guy at Appalachian St. who held the door open for a female student during a downpour and instead of a thank you got a diatribe about not needing his Patriarchy and Privilege.

College should be a time for debate and discussing different points of view. Now it is becoming a microcosm of Iron Horse's OP.

[BVS]

Originally Posted by Oregoropa

Liberal College Professors confess they are now afraid of their own student's sensitivities that if they say anything that veers from the Social Justice Warrior Code that they will be vilified.

Colleges are getting crazy. Read an anecdote of a guy at Appalachian St. who held the door open for a female student during a downpour and instead of a thank you got a diatribe about not needing his Patriarchy and Privilege.

And if this really happened it's a tiny percent of the population. College campuses have always had these voices in some way or another. The campuses are no more crazy than they were 50 years ago.


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[Diemen]

Originally Posted by Oregoropa

Read an anecdote of a guy at Appalachian St. who held the door open for a female student during a downpour and instead of a thank you got a diatribe about not needing his Patriarchy and Privilege.

Well, that one anecdote is all the proof I need.

[corianderstem]

I dunno. There are some crazy stories coming out from Yale, and from Carleton (sp?) College. I haven't read about them very deeply, but I have two friends who are Carleton alumns who were talking about it, and it sounds like it was a big story surrounding the school.

While the intent of "political correctness" or, as I like to call it, "considering other people before you speak or act,*" has its heart in the right place, I do wonder if things have swung too far in the other direction, where the idea of a little common sense is getting lost.

I hate to call it "people being overly sensitive," because a lot of this strife could be avoided if people could just actually learn to LISTEN to what the complainant is saying, rather than getting defensive over whatever you're being accused of doing/saying. Race, sexism, cultural appropriation, whatever. No one can seem to bear that they're being accused of anything. No one wants to accept that one can ACT in a racist/sexist way and be a generally good person at the good time. "I'm not a racist!" "Okay, but this thing you did was actually kind of racist. That doesn't mean you're a racist."

Anyway. Blah blah, I'm rambling. Avoiding work.







*what a concept, right?

[BVS]

Originally Posted by corianderstem

I dunno. There are some crazy stories coming out from Yale, and from Carleton (sp?) College. I haven't read about them very deeply, but I have two friends who are Carleton alumns who were talking about it, and it sounds like it was a big story surrounding the school.

While the intent of "political correctness" or, as I like to call it, "considering other people before you speak or act,*" has its heart in the right place, I do wonder if things have swung too far in the other direction, where the idea of a little common sense is getting lost.

I hate to call it "people being overly sensitive," because a lot of this strife could be avoided if people could just actually learn to LISTEN to what the complainant is saying, rather than getting defensive over whatever you're being accused of doing/saying. Race, sexism, cultural appropriation, whatever. No one can seem to bear that they're being accused of anything. No one wants to accept that one can ACT in a racist/sexist way and be a generally good person at the good time. "I'm not a racist!" "Okay, but this thing you did was actually kind of racist. That doesn't mean you're a racist."

Anyway. Blah blah, I'm rambling. Avoiding work.







*what a concept, right?

100%


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[Vlad n U 2]

That the iron horse made a thread on political correctness, posts a quote from some article and adds no personal comment is essentially such an inevitably iron horse thing to do.

On a side note, right wingers frothing at the mouth and screaming 'SJW! SJW!' at anything to the left of them is somewhat amusing. It's become an updated term for 'cultural Marxism' almost.

[Oregoropa]

Originally Posted by Diemen

Well, that one anecdote is all the proof I need.

You know it

[Bluer White]

Originally Posted by corianderstem

While the intent of "political correctness" or, as I like to call it, "considering other people before you speak or act,*" has its heart in the right place, I do wonder if things have swung too far in the other direction, where the idea of a little common sense is getting lost.

[bono_212]

I honestly do feel like it's getting a little out of control, on the internet at least. People getting offended over every little thing is getting old.

[Oregoropa]

SOPO - Society of the Perpetually Offended

[trojanchick99]

Originally Posted by corianderstem

I dunno. There are some crazy stories coming out from Yale, and from Carleton (sp?) College. I haven't read about them very deeply, but I have two friends who are Carleton alumns who were talking about it, and it sounds like it was a big story surrounding the school.

While the intent of "political correctness" or, as I like to call it, "considering other people before you speak or act,*" has its heart in the right place, I do wonder if things have swung too far in the other direction, where the idea of a little common sense is getting lost.

I hate to call it "people being overly sensitive," because a lot of this strife could be avoided if people could just actually learn to LISTEN to what the complainant is saying, rather than getting defensive over whatever you're being accused of doing/saying. Race, sexism, cultural appropriation, whatever. No one can seem to bear that they're being accused of anything. No one wants to accept that one can ACT in a racist/sexist way and be a generally good person at the good time. "I'm not a racist!" "Okay, but this thing you did was actually kind of racist. That doesn't mean you're a racist."

Anyway. Blah blah, I'm rambling. Avoiding work.

*what a concept, right?

This.

I work on a college campus, I'm a minority, and even I know it's going too far. Yale is a case in point. The initial email was well intentioned, I know as a minority I hate seeing people in costumes that are culturally insensitive. I also thought the professor's response was well reasoned. It was the response of the students that I think was out of line. There are better ways to disagree than screaming and hurling insults. Ironically, the professor was trying to treat her students as adults, and the students responded in an infantile manner.

And don't get me started on safe spaces and trigger warnings.

[Headache in a Suitcase]

It's clearly gone too far, but we can't fix it because anytime the discussion gets brought up it's monopolized by those who also think racism is glorified hyperbole.

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[Kieran McConville]

I'm gonna do a little cut-and-paste of my own, only in my case it's myself I'm quoting, from elsewhere, a while back. Really saves effort.

-------------------

It's one of those awful terms that has been well and truly appropriated by one or another side for wholly varying reasons, but... yeah... I'm pretty wary of the mob mentality, and some people ought to maybe wonder if they are adding to the sum total of human misery. I'm also wary of anyone whose perspective is limited to 'oh well, pc just means being decent and considerate to people'. No, it doesn't. Not only. If it did, there would be no problem for the most part.

Colour me exceedingly cautious about the march to a bland and bleached future without wanting to be lumped in with some sort of catch-all category of bigot (and so what anyway, I know my own mind).

All of that said, I am also inclined to seriously wonder sometimes how much of this even exists, even is a thing, outside of the financially engaged likes of The Guardian (clicks! clicks! clicks!), subsections of Tumblr, and Twitter, and maybe a subset of college populations in the US. With periodic code-red-freakout consequences for real-world organisations that happen to bump up against that social media feverdream.

So, to the extent that I see it, I don't much like what I'm seeing, but I try not to overconflate. Part of me suspects a lot of these people, well-meaning enough if devoid of any sense of nuance, humour or irony, know or care little about historic political objectives of the progressive side of politics, probably feel pretty helpless and hopeless about the world writ large (as do we all), took a main course of cultural studies at some point, and think tinpot 'victories' over this or that act of speech are what it's all about. It does put one in mind a little of Mao's earnest youth in the sixties, who were in the end simply useful idiots in the Great Helmsman's bid to divide and conquer.

[Kieran McConville]

What I actually think are that fanatical modes of thought are a peril for any human movement greater than a bridge club (and probably even then). You're seeing it right now in the struggle session that is the GOP primary debates. Nobody is immune, and good intentions or apparent righteousness can never be carte blanche for abandoning moderation (by which I do not mean spineless split-the-difference 'centrism').

[nbelcik]

As someone who is both a student at a university (Go Ducks) and a resident assistant, I whole heartedly support social justice measures. I want my residence hall to be a safe space for residents and I don't want people being racist, sexist, homophobic, transphobic, etc. This Halloween I had to explain to someone why they shouldn't dress up as Pocahontas. But that involved opening up a dialogue and not shutting people down. It involves long conversations and challenging assumptions and ideas. I think the students at Mizzou are fighting for the right thing. Systemic racism is a big problem at schools all over the nation but especially at Mizzou and there needs to be a dialogue opened and the people who have been involved in racist incidents or support racist actions need to listen to students of color as they voice their concerns.


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[bono_212]

I just don't understand why dressing as a historical figure for Halloween would not be ok. Are they exaggerating features in an offensive manner? Are they running around with their hand tapping against their mouth going Oh wo wo o o?

I realize my connection to my native American nationality is a couple generations removed, so I'm only a quarter native, but I love my heritage, and hold very tightly to it. But I can't for the life of my understand why dressing as Pocahontas would be offensive...

EDIT: And I'm saying this because I'd like to have a meaningful conversation about this topic, as lately I've kinda been a bit awestruck by how ANGRY people have been getting towards individuals who dress as Native Americans for events...yet there's all this pushback about the whole Redskins name. Obviously I can only speak for myself, but the former doesn't offend me in the slightest. The latter absolutely does.

[Vlad n U 2]

Originally Posted by nbelcik

As someone who is both a student at a university (Go Ducks) and a resident assistant, I whole heartedly support social justice measures. I want my residence hall to be a safe space for residents and I don't want people being racist, sexist, homophobic, transphobic, etc. This Halloween I had to explain to someone why they shouldn't dress up as Pocahontas. But that involved opening up a dialogue and not shutting people down. It involves long conversations and challenging assumptions and ideas. I think the students at Mizzou are fighting for the right thing. Systemic racism is a big problem at schools all over the nation but especially at Mizzou and there needs to be a dialogue opened and the people who have been involved in racist incidents or support racist actions need to listen to students of color as they voice their concerns.


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