Political Correctness

[Irvine511]

Why was it an intense moment, though. That's my problem here. It shouldn't be like that. There's no reason to get that angry because of an e-mail that was aimed at starting conversation, not telling people to "lighten up". This is not the way people should treat one another.

And I'm sorry, but it was certainly not "unfortunate" that it was caught on camera. She wanted to be heard. She stood in front of a group of people and made herself a spectacle. If she DIDN'T expect that to be filmed, I'd be shocked. Why else do it? THAT is a big thing that bothers me about this.

Ugh, look, I'm not trying to say that passion is misplaced. It's misplaced here, and vilifying anyone isn't necessary. Learning to communicate is. That's all I want to say.

And yes, it's TERRIBLE that the aftermath is what it is. For that, I pity her. I just don't use it to justify her initial actions.

i really think we're holding a very young woman to an impossible standard here. that's been my problem from the beginning -- the pile-on of a young person (angry black woman, entitled millennial) who was caught losing control of her emotions. this wasn't for the media, there was someone with a smartphone who recorded it. i can agree that, within the specifics of this incident, the two are talking past each other, but i don't think her anger is indicative of anything beyond the intensity of identity and identification commonly felt by minorities of all kinds.

all that said, i take your points. you're not asking people to gawk at the entitled millennials. that's what's really irritating to me about this whole thing.

 

[the iron horse]

A short seven minute film by Neel Kolhatkar.

 

[Diemen]

A short seven minute film by Neel Kolhatkar.

It would be good if it was at least slightly insightful. As it is, dialogue like this:

Evil PC Teacher: What is 1+1?

Student Representing Common Sense: 2.

Evil PC Teacher: Wrong.

PC-drone Student 1: Multiculturalism.

Evil PC Teacher: Yes!

And this:

Evil PC Teacher: What is 3x3?

Student Representing Common Sense: 9.

Evil PC Teacher: Wrong.

PC-drone Student 2: Gender equality.

Evil PC Teacher: Well done.

Well, the foreboding music and muted color palette can only do so much to cover up juvenile dreck like that.

 

[PhilsFan]

I'm so glad I didn't watch that drivel.

 

[Vlad n U 2]

I hope iron horse doesn't further embarrass himself by showing it to his students.

 

[the iron horse]

Vlad n U 2 "I hope iron horse doesn't further embarrass himself by showing it to his students."

Why should I be embarrassed?


Back to the issue...

A new report today in The Telegraph:

British universities have become too politically correct and are stifling free speech by banning anything that causes the least offence to anyone, academics argue

“A generation of students is being denied the opportunity to test their opinions against the views of those they don’t agree with.”


Politically correct universities 'are killing free speech' - Telegraph

 

[BVS]

That's not a report, that's a poorly written editorial.

The interesting part of this argument is how the author ignores the fact that protesting these speakers or speaking out against the presence of the statue IS part of the free speech process.


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[nbelcik]

http://www.thenation.com/article/pl...-legislation-stalks-the-mizzou-football-team/

This state lawmaker is trying to prevent students from being able to speak out, protest, and strike against injustice on campus. But it's the left wing who's trying to restrict speech.


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[Moonlit_Angel]

The interesting part of this argument is how the author ignores the fact that protesting these speakers or speaking out against the presence of the statue IS part of the free speech process.

Bingo.

And this...

It is important that more do, because a culture that restricts the free exchange of ideas encourages self-censorship and leaves people afraid to express their views in case they may be misinterpreted.

Ergh. For the love of god, people can say whatever they want. But if they say something that is ignorant, or may be construed as offensive (or IS offensive), they should be prepared for the fact that someone may call them out for it. Trump is allowed to say we should ban all Muslims all he wants. And I'm allowed to call him an idiot for saying such a thing.

That is NOT censorship. That is merely a response to what someone said. People are allowed to criticize others' views, just as the people they're criticizing are allowed to express them. If someone disagrees with me politically, they have every right to say so. What is so hard to understand about that concept?

And if someone really does think they're so in the right with what they believe and say, then why would they bother to "self-censor" or "be afraid to express their views"? They should be able to stand by what they believe and say and continue to spout those views, no problem, right? If they personally choose to remain quiet to avoid confrontation, however, that's not other people's fault.

One other thing people in the U.S., at least, really need to understand is that the First Amendment states that the federal government cannot restrict free speech (and even then, correct me if I'm wrong, but might there be a few caveats to that, too?). Individual businesses and organizations, however, may work differently in that regard. And iron horse's article was from Britain, so I don't know how they handle the free speech issue there in comparison to us.

 

[the iron horse]

‘Plantation Politics’: Racist Legislation Stalks the Mizzou Football Team | The Nation

This state lawmaker is trying to prevent students from being able to speak out, protest, and strike against injustice on campus. But it's the left wing who's trying to restrict speech.


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I agree about the progressive left being the ones who are trying to restrict speech in our Western culture.

I know there are far right fringe groups who would love to do the same thing, but they are not the ones in charge of the propaganda we are seeing.

Our society is slowly becoming "Orwellian" without even knowing what "Orwellian" means.

 

[Vlad n U 2]

I agree about the progressive left being the ones who are trying to restrict speech in our Western culture.

I know there are far right fringe groups who would love to do the same thing, but they are not the ones in charge of the propaganda we are seeing.

Our society is slowly becoming "Orwellian" without even knowing what "Orwellian" means.

Missed the tone of his post there, mate.

 

[PhilsFan]

I agree about the progressive left being the ones who are trying to restrict speech in our Western culture.

I know there are far right fringe groups who would love to do the same thing, but they are not the ones in charge of the propaganda we are seeing.

Our society is slowly becoming "Orwellian" without even knowing what "Orwellian" means.

You being a teacher frightens me. I'm genuinely concerned about your students.

 

[the iron horse]

You being a teacher frightens me. I'm genuinely concerned about your students.

What have I said that is frightening?

 

[nbelcik]

I agree about the progressive left being the ones who are trying to restrict speech in our Western culture.



I know there are far right fringe groups who would love to do the same thing, but they are not the ones in charge of the propaganda we are seeing.



Our society is slowly becoming "Orwellian" without even knowing what "Orwellian" means.

Yeah you missed the tone. The point was that people on the right wing are actively trying to pass laws that infringe on free speech. The left isn't doing that. Criticizing speech and passing laws are two completely different things.


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[BVS]

What have I said that is frightening?

What's frightening? That you are so entrenched in the far right that you often turn a blind eye, you sweep under the rug, and now you're completely turning off the ability to apply 3rd grade reading comprehension.


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[PhilsFan]

What have I said that is frightening?

In that post? That the "progressive left" is engaging in propaganda to restrict free speech in the West. That's a lie, and either you know that or you are so lacking in intellectual curiosity that you somehow believe it. I'm worried that's the worldview you are presenting to your students.

 

[Oregoropa]

In that post? That the "progressive left" is engaging in propaganda to restrict free speech in the West. That's a lie, and either you know that or you are so lacking in intellectual curiosity that you somehow believe it.

The right isn't pushing hate speech legislation. College campuses are no longer a place where you can go to engage in dialogue and have your beliefs challenged, unless you are of conservative thought. Even liberal professors are scared of offending hyper-sensitive students. Colleges and academia are left wing enclaves. Their Frankenstein thought experiment students are now running the joint.

If it's a lie prove it from your point of view.

PS: Iron Horse, you started this so don't duck out of the argument because I'm giving you some back up.


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[BVS]

The right isn't pushing hate speech legislation. College campuses are no longer a place where you can go to engage in dialogue and have your beliefs challenged, unless you are of conservative thought. Even liberal professors are scared of offending hyper-sensitive students. Colleges and academia are left wing enclaves. Their Frankenstein thought experiment students are now running the joint.

If it's a lie prove it from your point of view.



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That's not really how you debate, you don't say that's how it is, now prove me wrong.

Show real example of professors being scared, show real examples of how this is a real problem and not happening on one or two campuses.


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[Oregoropa]

That's not really how you debate, you don't say that's how it is, now prove me wrong.

Show real example of professors being scared, show real examples of how this is a real problem and not happening on one or two campuses.


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By your rules then everybody must provide citations.

When somebody says "Cruz is a homophobe" I'll expect you to ask them for some kind of link. Amirite?


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[BVS]

By your rules then everybody must provide citations.

When somebody says "Cruz is a homophobe" I'll expect you to ask them for some kind of link. Amirite?


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Yes, everyone should be able to back up their claims. Why do you act like that's such a foreign concept? This worries me.

If some says "_______ is a homophobe", it usually comes in response to something they've said or done, so that is the source.




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[Mrs. Garrison]

Cruz is a homophobe

 

[Oregoropa]

Cruz is a homophobe

BVS requires a citation LOL

 

[BVS]

So I'm beginning to see the pattern; professors that made you cite your papers, websites that fact check, and posters that ask for sources = evil liberals trying to curb speech. Presidential candidates that don't fact check and use stats developed by organized hate groups and posters that constantly use numbers that have no backing = good decent conservative real Mericans.

Do I have that right?

Keep mocking those that function using facts. You don't really do the far right any favors by constantly attacking those in pursuit of facts, demonizing science and higher education.

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[Bluer White]

By your rules then everybody must provide citations.

When somebody says "Cruz is a homophobe" I'll expect you to ask them for some kind of link. Amirite?


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Discussion guidelines in the forum, Oregoropa,

depend entirely on your position.

 

[BVS]

Discussion guidelines in the forum, Oregoropa,



depend entirely on your position.

Ah, the oppression card. How original. You've become quite the master of it.

Are you in the minority view? Yes
Is that the problem? No
The problem is engagement; most with the minority view in here don't, they just do drive bys. The one or two that try and engage they don't know how to do so. If you want a source for something I post, ask me and you'll receive, without any complaint.

The fact that this has even turn into an issue speaks volumes.


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[Vlad n U 2]

Get a load of this all encompassing stench of Big Liberalism here on FYM.

 

[Oregoropa]

All hail the word of the Blue Face

 

[Galeongirl]

By your rules then everybody must provide citations.

When somebody says "Cruz is a homophobe" I'll expect you to ask them for some kind of link. Amirite?


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That's kinda how debates work in real life. Just as how the Scientific world works. If you're making a bold statement, you are going to need to provide the facts. This could be citations, examples, videos, anything factual and objective. Opinions and other subjective matter aren't quite useful in this case.

When calling someone a homophobe, yes, that would require backing up as well. So if there's a news article or video where this person is spouting shit against homosexuals, that would count as backing up and therefore make the statement legit. Of course it also depends on interpretation of facts, but that's a whole other discussion. On forums we usually take the general interpretation. So in this example, if someone posts on social media about hating them gayz, not wanting them to get married, then yes, people generally assume that this person is homophobic.

 

[LemonMelon]

So we're really encouraging people to thoughtlessly throw shit at the wall to see what sticks, huh? No substance required?

Gotta say, I've never heard of the debate format that forces someone to substantiate their opposition's arguments for them. That's a new one.

 

[PhilsFan]

The right isn't pushing hate speech legislation. College campuses are no longer a place where you can go to engage in dialogue and have your beliefs challenged, unless you are of conservative thought. Even liberal professors are scared of offending hyper-sensitive students. Colleges and academia are left wing enclaves. Their Frankenstein thought experiment students are now running the joint.

If it's a lie prove it from your point of view.

PS: Iron Horse, you started this so don't duck out of the argument because I'm giving you some back up.


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The left is pushing for it to be illegal for you to beat up gay people while screaming "Faggot!" The left wants that to be more than just simple assault. It's a hate crime. The left wants it to be illegal for you to deny gay people jobs for no other reason than they're gay. Same with firing them.

If you think that's propaganda, if you think that's a restriction on free speech, engage me on that. But your sweeping claims of "left wing enclaves that are squeezing out debate" is laughable and not something I'm going to bother arguing with because you're just making shit up.