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Old 05-28-2016, 07:25 PM   #161
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Here's where we disagree. To varying degrees, I see the value in cultural rabble rousers. From the communists of the 60s, to the punks of the 70s, to our current anti-PC crowds -- there's something to be gained from subverting the popular culture of the time, even if people believe that the popular culture is generally good.

With no counter cultural movements, the slope toward an echo chamber can become quite steep.

The difference is that those movements aimed their subversion up, they were attacking the dominant power structure. Milo aims down, at women, black people, trans people, and other people who are victimized by the dominant power structure. He's not subversive, he's reinforcing dominant power structures and calling it subversive.


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Old 05-28-2016, 07:42 PM   #162
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Plus, it's hard not to root for the other team when you've got people continuously trying to silence him
I can't speak to the particular guy you're talking about here, since I've never heard of him until now, but speaking generally, siding with someone simply because they're being dogpiled doesn't seem like a very good strategy to me. Especially not if they're known for saying sexist/racist/homophobic things.

I agree that actively silencing people doesn't help the conversation or stop people from thinking offensive things, or finding other ways to express their thoughts. And I've yet to see this video, but if people got actively confrontational and got up in others' faces and whatnot, then no, that's not good, either. That's not a wise way to get one's point across or be taken seriously.

But at the same time, I also think people need to learn the difference between actually being legit silenced and simply being criticized/yelled at for saying something that rubbed people the wrong way. The former is actual censorship. The latter is not. People can say whatever they want, I won't argue that one bit. But they also need to be prepared for the possibility that somebody may react badly to what they said, and may call them out for it. Especially if what the person said is something that is knowingly ignorant or wrong.
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Old 05-30-2016, 10:25 AM   #163
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Political Correctness

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The difference is that those movements aimed their subversion up, they were attacking the dominant power structure. Milo aims down, at women, black people, trans people, and other people who are victimized by the dominant power structure. He's not subversive, he's reinforcing dominant power structures and calling it subversive.

I think there's a bit of confusion about what the current dominant power structure actually is, though I think this confusion stems from different definitions of what the current "culture" is.

Is Christianity dominant culture? Depends on how you define culture. It's certainly a force to be reckoned with in my parents' generation. In my generation, though? No. Christianity does not exert any meaningful power over the thoughts or opinions of the majority of people in my age group (20-30 year olds). The fruits of the labor aren't quite ready to be harvested yet, but that battle is won.

If you look on college campuses, a different sort of power structure begins to emerge. A power structure that terminates professors for failing to broadcast trigger warnings, creates national news related to what Halloween costumes students *talk* about wearing, and forges new socially conscious "demand" lists every week.

I'm from Louisiana, a location not exactly known for its progressive bent. I attended a Trump protest to get at people, once. I had tons of compatriots. Later, I wore a "Make America Great Again" hat - again, just to get at people. It took quite literally ten minutes before establishments threatened to refuse me service.

In society writ large, no argument from me - there is a degree of white and male privilege still in power. In the upcoming generation? I think there's an argument to be made that a new power structure is developing, and is therefore in need of subversion.

EDIT: also, Milo really doesn't aim at black people. He's on many occasions pointed out that black people are still owed something by America, as they're not yet on equal footing. The fact that it's so often claimed he's racist is just a side effect of the growth of intersectionality.
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Old 05-30-2016, 10:35 AM   #164
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Political Correctness

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But at the same time, I also think people need to learn the difference between actually being legit silenced and simply being criticized/yelled at for saying something that rubbed people the wrong way. The former is actual censorship. The latter is not. People can say whatever they want, I won't argue that one bit. But they also need to be prepared for the possibility that somebody may react badly to what they said, and may call them out for it. Especially if what the person said is something that is knowingly ignorant or wrong.

The protestors stormed the stage, stole a microphone, and blew a whistle into it every time he spoke in order to drown him out, until the event had to be canceled. This is actual silencing, not imagined. I see how it can be hard to tell the difference sometimes, because the right *did* cry wolf on this subject for a lot of years.



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Old 06-11-2016, 10:35 AM   #165
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The Craziest Demands of College Kids in 2016 - The Daily Beast
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Old 06-11-2016, 11:28 AM   #166
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Stunning hot take from The Daily Beast once again. I guess they finally had to find something to write about other than Putin.
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Old 06-12-2016, 02:22 AM   #167
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Get Rid of Grades and Tests

this, I fucking agree with.
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Old 06-12-2016, 02:29 AM   #168
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Political correctness ...next thing you know we will have to eat with a fork and spoon, flush the toilet and put the lid down, stay quiet in a church service, not threaten the other teams dad with violence, love one another.
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Old 06-12-2016, 02:39 AM   #169
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this, I fucking agree with.
Yeah, there should be a discussion over standardised testing.
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Old 06-12-2016, 03:19 AM   #170
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not threaten the other teams dad with violence
I'M SORRY I THOUGHT THIS WAS AMERICA


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Old 06-12-2016, 03:25 AM   #171
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I'M SORRY I THOUGHT THIS WAS AMERICA


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All caps doesn't help America.

All this anti anti pc pc crap is nothing more than people not wanting to take responsibility for what they do or say.
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Old 06-12-2016, 04:27 AM   #172
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Yeah, there should be a discussion over standardised testing.
I took ACT. and got good/decent/so-so score and got into college so i wont be discussing it
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Old 06-12-2016, 10:38 AM   #173
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There is an oversensitivity to anything that could remotely be deemed as offensive by a decent portion of the country.

There's also a bigger portion of the country that thinks people telling them not to be racist, bigoted douchebags is "PC culture run amok." (They're called Trump supporters)

As with most things in the good ole USA, we'll only pay attention to the extremes, ignore whatever real issues there may be, and accomplish nothing.

Cause Murcia.
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Old 06-12-2016, 12:15 PM   #174
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Cause Murcia.
hey, what have coastal spaniards ever done to you?
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