Police state in Britain.

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I'll admit, as someone on the left this is disheartening to say the least. But I'll maintain - this is the fault of Gordon Brown, not the Labour Party.
 
I don't mean to go on a rant, but I have to say, excepting the posters that have already responded, I am really disappointed at the lack of interest in this thread.

Do people not see this as a serious matter?

Fine, most of you don't live in or near the UK, but seriously, don't you care about this stuff? Isn't this an issue of some importance?

You realise, if they can do it to a senior member of parliament in the oldest democracy in the world, they can do it to anyone?

I'm just reminded, not for the first time, of that boiling frog.


Boiling frog - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
I don't mean to go on a rant, but I have to say, excepting the posters that have already responded, I am really disappointed at the lack of interest in this thread.

Do people not see this as a serious matter?

Fine, most of you don't live in or near the UK, but seriously, don't you care about this stuff? Isn't this an issue of some importance?

You realise, if they can do it to a senior member of parliament in the oldest democracy in the world, they can do it to anyone?

I'm just reminded, not for the first time, of that boiling frog.


Boiling frog - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



I keep my eyes wide open all the time.

~Johnny Cash


A good thought to keep in mind as we swim though this boiling pot.
 
Well to be honest, I don't know enough about this substantively to comment in any real way.

The Canadian thread really had no substantive contribution from non-Canadians either, so it's not as if non-American issues around here get a lot of participation from anyone but nationals of the country.
 
It's Thanksgiving weekend, so many people are on holidays and if at all take only quick looks at the forum.
Apart from that, yes, responses to non-American issues are indeed far lower. But I can also think of a multitude of valid and logical reasons why people rather not respond to those threads. A look at the number of how many people viewed the thread might be a better proxy. Though of course it also counts multiple openings by one person or those that only opened a thread for a second one can try and estimate the interest in it.

England, to me, is quite worrysome for quite a while now. It began in the times of the IRA bombing that security was gradually increased, but with the IRA (used here as generic term for all sub-groups as well) stopping the bombings this development of substituting privacy with security didn't stop. They simply found another reason to further increase it. And apparently, they don't stop thinking of additional things to add, like the proposed database containing information even about children that show any kind of indication that they are not normal.
At the same time, over the last year and a half there has been a record number of incidents where USB sticks, cell phones, laptops etc. got lost, stolen or made public containing all kinds of information.
And unfortunately for other countries England is somewhat of the experimental lab for all the fancy technology and other opportunities how to increase "security".
 
I have my own reasons for not commenting (like, it's FYM): but if the concern at hand is the use of anti-terror related laws to harrass innocent people, then I assure you I'm well aware of it.

In Australia, the Mohammed Haneef case may (in a very, very small part) have helped to unseat John Howard's government last year. If it did, at all, they deserved it. And the same goes for whoever is responsible for this sort of thing in any country.

The very REAL problem, Financeguy, is that police-state tactics are bipartisan. America has just about finished eight years under one of the most intrusive administrations ever. I guess I have my eye on America more than Britain, since I figure, it can sort itself out, and also cannot dominate the globe.
 
I don't mean to go on a rant, but I have to say, excepting the posters that have already responded, I am really disappointed at the lack of interest in this thread.

Do people not see this as a serious matter?

Fine, most of you don't live in or near the UK, but seriously, don't you care about this stuff? Isn't this an issue of some importance?

You realise, if they can do it to a senior member of parliament in the oldest democracy in the world, they can do it to anyone?

I'm just reminded, not for the first time, of that boiling frog.


Boiling frog - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


I think on here there is a distinct lack of participation in threads that are geographically far from where people are situated. I mean, look at the Mumbai thread - only 3 pages of posts, and how many people have died? That's really is something in need of discussion. But then again, I know I for one feel uncomfortable posting on a topic I know only little about.
 
i think it goes to show once again that america gets all the attention, while the rest of the world goes by relatively unnoticed.
that doesn't feel right to write, but it really seems to be the case.
i read about this arrest on saturday in the independent and it really is frightening. there are so many ramifications to their dealings... the very instrument of democracy was abused, as far as i'm concerned.
in russia, i wouldn't be surprised. but i think anyone who's from britain or has their own national government modelled after it should be gravely concerned by this incident.
 
i think it goes to show once again that america gets all the attention, while the rest of the world goes by relatively unnoticed.
that doesn't feel right to write, but it really seems to be the case.
i read about this arrest on saturday in the independent and it really is frightening. there are so many ramifications to their dealings... the very instrument of democracy was abused, as far as i'm concerned.
in russia, i wouldn't be surprised. but i think anyone who's from britain or has their own national government modelled after it should be gravely concerned by this incident.

I'm personally not too worried - it seems that Ian Blair had some hand in it following the Tories supposed 'usurping' of him. Yes, democracy was abused but I can't see it happening again any time soon given the furore it caused. Amongst Labour party members, too.
 
Oops, looks like this one is getting nastier by the day.

Anti-terror chief accuses Tories of undermining MP leaks inquiry and putting his family at risk - Times Online

Bob Quick, who said the Tories and their supporters were 'mobilised' against his investigation

Francis Elliott, Deputy Political Editor
Britain’s anti-terror chief was at the centre of an extraordinary row tonight after accusing the “Tory machinery” of seeking to undermine the Damien Green investigation.

Bob Quick, the Metropolitan Police Assistant Commissioner, alleged the Tories and their supporters were “mobilised” against the investigation “in a wholly corrupt way”.

Although Mr Quick later retracted the claim of corruption the outburst led senior Conservatives to question the judgment of the man in charge of the Green inquiry.

The senior policeman made his remarks when contacted by a reporter while moving his family after the Mail on Sunday published details about a car-hire business run by his wife from their home.

He said: “It is an attempt to undermine an investigation which is legitimate. The Tory machinery and their press friends are mobilised against this investigation in a wholly corrupt way, and I feel very disappointed in the country I am living in.”
 
ha yeah i read that earlier. this could be dismissed as ridiculous politics if it weren't so very serious in its own right.
 
Police who arrested the Conservative frontbencher Damian Green trawled his private e-mails looking for information on Britain’s leading civil liberties campaigner.

Officers from Scotland Yard’s antiterror squad searched the computer seized from his parliamentary office using the key words “Shami Chakrabarti” – even though the Liberty director had nothing to do with the leaking of Home Office documents that prompted the investigation.

In an interview with The Times, Mr Green warned that his arrest and the raids on his Commons office and homes smacked of a “police state”. The Tory immigration spokesman said that Ms Chakrabarti’s name had been one of the keywords used to go through e-mails and computer documents going back several years.







Shami Chakrabarti was target in police search - Times Online
 
I'm sorry I haven't had much of a chance to keep up with UK news. What triggered the arrest of D.Green in the first place? And why the raids?
 
And I must add that it is always disconcerting when the police begin to raid places to collect information. It certainly screams police state.... and I've always had such respect for the British and their demand for the upholding of democracy and rights.
 
On the news they said that if we're not careful Britain is going to end up like Nazi Germany in 10 years time.

And what's the deal with ID cards? Do they honestly think they're gonna put an end to terrorism, crime and fraud so we live in a perfect society (and if you believe that, you also believe that pigs can fly). Well if you've got nothing to hide then you've got nothing to worry about; - How long are we gonna put up with this saying? Haven't they watched Big Brother? Haven't they read 1984? Haven't they seen Minority Report? They're good aren't they?
 
And what's the deal with ID cards? Do they honestly think they're gonna put an end to terrorism, crime and fraud so we live in a perfect society (and if you believe that, you also believe that pigs can fly). Well if you've got nothing to hide then you've got nothing to worry about; - How long are we gonna put up with this saying? Haven't they watched Big Brother? Haven't they read 1984? Haven't they seen Minority Report? They're good aren't they?


You don't carry ID now?
 
No. But it's not just something that you already have on your passport. They want to include genetic information and iris scans. My fried whose Portugese has one but there's nothing on it that wouldn't already be on your passport only it's much safer to carry that around rather your passport.


What do you mean by genetic information?

I would think Iris scans would be pretty damn expensive, that's interesting...

What do you mean your friend has one? You mean an ID? I think I'm still missing something... In the states almost everyone carries some sort of ID, what am I missing?
 
W
hat do you mean by genetic information?

I would think Iris scans would be pretty damn expensive, that's interesting...

Yes but who do you think will have to pay for it? :wave:Yes that's right, the British public themselves!

What do you mean your friend has one? You mean an ID? I think I'm still missing something... In the states almost everyone carries some sort of ID, what am I missing?

Currently all immigrants have to carry one but I think there's is more like the information you'd have on a passport but if they lose it, it will cause a lot less trouble then losing your passport. Cameron, the the leader of the opposition party, said that if the Conservatives get into power we won't have to carry one. It's 2009, the last election was 2005 and we normally have a genral election every 4 years. Can we get rid off the Labour party now? Of course the recession has given him a perfect opportunity to postpone the election 'till next year. Brown is an unelected prime minister which they brought in after they forced Tony Blair out of office. I prefered Blair, Brown is a twat. I bet you they couldn't do this in America (by which I mean ousting the existing leader and allowing an unelected man to run the country). :angry:
 
Brown is an unelected prime minister which they brought in after they forced Tony Blair out of office. I prefered Blair, Brown is a twat. I bet you they couldn't do this in America (by which I mean ousting the existing leader and allowing an unelected man to run the country). :angry:

Amen :yes: The Labour party needs a MASSIVE overhaul, and a reminder of what side of the political spectrum they're supposed to be on...

I'll be voting for them next time, but not because I want them in power (I don't) but because I don't want a Tory government. It's going to be a case of 'the lesser of two evils' but the way the Labour party is going, it may well be hard to tell the two parties apart soon.
 
Amen :yes: The Labour party needs a MASSIVE overhaul, and a reminder of what side of the political spectrum they're supposed to be on...

I'll be voting for them next time, but not because I want them in power (I don't) but because I don't want a Tory government. It's going to be a case of 'the lesser of two evils' but the way the Labour party is going, it may well be hard to tell the two parties apart soon.

Exactly, non of them are any good. The one's that do have great policies are so minor and will never get in power. They all lie anyway.
 
Yes but who do you think will have to pay for it? :wave:Yes that's right, the British public themselves!
Don't you pay taxes?


Currently all immigrants have to carry one but I think there's is more like the information you'd have on a passport but if they lose it, it will cause a lot less trouble then losing your passport. Cameron, the the leader of the opposition party, said that if the Conservatives get into power we won't have to carry one.

Ok, but I'm trying to understand the fear or opposition of carrying an ID you haven't exactly explained this.

I carry a driver's license, that way I can prove who I say I am and if godforbid I die people know who I am. Is this bad? What should I be afraid of?
 
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