Personhood Amendments

[corianderstem]

Anitram just did.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0001897/

 

[deep]

I hope she is ok.

she'll be in my prayers.

 

[Pearl]

Plus, a female politician who was speaking on this issue in Michigan was told to stop because she dared utter the word "vagina", so if we can't even get that far, then I guess I shouldn't expect anything further with that.

(I do love how these politicians who think they can make all these laws on this sort of topic can't seem to handle hearing a woman say the word "vagina". You're legislating something you don't want discussed in public? Okay.)

To me, saying a woman can't say vagina in public is forbidding her to own her body and sexuality. It doesn't allow her to be proud of what she has, something misogynists are quite keen on.

 

[Caleb8844]

Anitram just did.

Ectopic pregnancy - PubMed Health

Thanks, I missed her post somehow.

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

I also know someone who was pregnant, but the pregnancy wasn't going very well and then she wound up having appendicitis on top of it all, and they were worried about how that might affect her health and her pregnancy. So they did the appendectomy and then, because it was looking likely she'd miscarry anyway, she chose to not wait until that happened and ended the pregnancy. And yes, it was just a month or so in, too.

There are plenty of situations of women in this day and age struggling with serious health issues when pregnant. We still hear stories sometimes of women in this country dying in childbirth. What bubble is this Walsh guy living in?

To me, saying a woman can't say vagina in public is forbidding her to own her body and sexuality. It doesn't allow her to be proud of what she has, something misogynists are quite keen on.

Agreed. It's just insane, this attitude.

 

[Danny Boy]

Ectopic pregnancy is not a great example because ultimately it is not a viable pregnancy.

A better example would be a pregnant woman with Marfan Syndrome and a dilated aorta. She would be at greatly increased risk of aortic rupture carrying a pregnancy to term.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

Other situations could include preeclampsia, lupus, deep vein thrombosis, heart or vessel or vein malformation, diabetes, anything that you need to take blood thinners for (you can't take those during pregnancy). I would guess anything that you need certain drugs for to stay alive, when you can't take those drugs during pregnancy. Any condition that can cause hemorrhaging.

Obviously some things can be medically managed and pregnancy wouldn't always be risking the life of the mother. That's up to the medical experts to advise them.

 

[Pearl]

Here's a good article that weighs in the whole issue:

The issue:
Whether women have access to abortion services and birth control is a long-standing and divisive issue in politics, and it has flared up from time to time in this campaign despite the candidates' reticence to dwell on such hot-button topics.
___
Where they stand:
President Barack Obama supports access to abortion. His health care law requires contraceptives to be available for free for women enrolled in workplace health plans.
Republican Mitt Romney favors limits on abortion, though he previously supported access to it. He says Roe v. Wade, the Supreme Court ruling establishing abortion rights, should be reversed, which would allow states to ban abortion. He would end federal aid to Planned Parenthood, a major provider of abortion and contraception, and has criticized mandatory coverage for contraception as a threat to religious liberty when it's applied to employers, such as Catholic hospitals, that disagree.
___
Why it matters:
There's been a lot of heated talk this year by Democrats contending that Republicans are waging a "war on women." That's hyperbole, retorts the GOP, but there are indeed stark differences between the two parties over these volatile issues.
Obama's Affordable Care Act, which Republicans opposed and want to repeal, vastly expands women's access to copay-free preventive health care, including contraception.
The U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops and many conservative Protestant evangelicals have denounced this contraception mandate, saying it violates religious freedom. The provision generally exempts houses of worship, but faith-affiliated employers would have to comply.
Obama's campaign has been running ads aimed at female voters, noting that Romney supports overturning Roe v. Wade and has assailed the contraception coverage requirement as a "war on religion."
Were Romney to be elected, his ability to push through tough federal abortion restrictions would probably be limited unless Republicans gained firm control of both chambers of Congress.
However, the next president — Obama or Romney — could have huge influence over the future of abortion policy if vacancies arise on the Supreme Court. For example, if two seats held by liberal justices were vacated and filled by Romney-nominated conservatives, prospects for a reversal of Roe v. Wade would increase.
"That's bigger than everything else combined, because of the long-term consequences," said anti-abortion rights activist Charmaine Yoest, president of Americans United for Life.
Another issue of contention is the federally financed family planning program known as Title X. Romney has proposed ending the program, as well as all other federal money for Planned Parenthood. Obama supporters say this could be harmful to the large numbers of women who rely on Planned Parenthood clinics for affordable birth control, breast-cancer screenings and other services.
Aside from the presidential and congressional elections, there's a lot riding on the results of state-level elections. Anti-abortion rights activists hope for further gains to accelerate a dramatic trend of the past decade: the enactment of scores of laws restricting access to abortion in states with Republican-controlled legislatures.
Among these measures are laws in several states prohibiting abortion after 20 weeks of pregnancy, on the disputed premise that fetuses can feel pain at that stage; and a South Dakota law requiring doctors to warn women seeking abortions that they face increased risk of suicide by undergoing the procedure. In Mississippi, the lone abortion clinic is threatened with closure because of a new law requiring abortion providers to have hospital admitting privileges.
In some parts of the country, abortion providers already are so scarce that women with an unintended pregnancy face a choice between reluctantly bearing a child or traveling hundreds of miles for an abortion. Election results could reduce access even further in some states.

The Associated Press: WHY IT MATTERS: Abortion and birth control

I don't understand why some believe overturning Roe v. Wade will end abortion once and for all. The procedure has been around long before the 1970s, and will stay around even if the law is overturned. Only this time, women will be forced to undergo unsafe procedures. And with so many strangely elected politicians saying a woman can't have a risky pregnancy or get pregnant as a result of rape, the idea that so many women will be restricted to end a pregnancy sounds very scary.

This is the 21st century. I should not be fearing for my future as a woman. I can't help but wonder if the insanity to prevent abortion for any reason will be the beginning of something worse. Let's say Roe v. Wade is overturned, and a woman can't have an abortion even if her life is in danger or she's been raped - what will be next to restrict a woman's freedom?

 

[Pearl]

Here's a story of one woman who was part of the pro-life movement and now sides with the pro-choice movement - but still wants to prevent abortions.

Its a bit lengthy but here goes:

How I Lost Faith in the “Pro-Life” Movement

 

[anitram]

john koster, a republican running for congress in washington, became the latest candidate to opine on abortion exceptions in cases of rape and incest over the weekend at a fundraiser with rep. Tom price (r-ga).

...

Incest is so rare, i mean, it’s so rare. But the rape thing…you know, i know a woman who was raped and kept her child, gave it up for adoption, she doesn’t regret it. In fact, she’s a big pro-life proponent.

the rape thing!

 

[Irvine511]

the GOP is as not misogynist as they are not racist.

 

[Pearl]

Incest is so rare, i mean, it’s so rare. But the rape thing…you know, i know a woman who was raped and kept her child, gave it up for adoption, she doesn’t regret it. In fact, she’s a big pro-life proponent.

I don't know whether to seethe with anger or laugh my ass off over this.

Incest is so rare? Wow, he needs to do his research big time! I hope organizations like RAINN or something contact him and tell him he's flat wrong.

And the rape thing? I hope he doesn't have a girlfriend or a sister. Better yet, I hope he never has a daughter.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

Can't these people just SHUT UP ?

 

[Pearl]

Can't these people just SHUT UP ?

But they can't, MrsS. Can't you see they need to protect the unborn from the evil Marxist ideology that has brainwashed women into thinking they have a right to make their own decisions and own their bodies?

 

[corianderstem]

Q: How fucking hard is it to just say rape?

A: NOT VERY FUCKING HARD.

If you have to mention rape, then don't put any qualifiers around it.

"not even in the case of rape." There. You've stated your position about abortion.

THE RAPE THING

ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGH.

I hope that just cost you your election, you moron.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

The sad truth is that it won't ever cost anyone an election. I'd be shocked if it did.

 

[Pearl]

The even sadder truth is that there will be women voting for him, and Akin, Mourdock and the others.

 

[deep]

what is so difficult to understand that many women do not believe in abortion, especially for you people that are supporters of the religions belief systems.

 

[corianderstem]

The point is that all women human beings should be concerned about words and actions that are belittling, trivializing or dismissive of rape.

I don't care that he's against abortion. And I'm sure he knows that rape is abhorrent and nothing to be trivialized. But words matter, and if people would take two seconds to THINK before speaking, they could avoid coming across like a careless jerk.

 

[cobl04]

what is so difficult to understand that many women do not believe in abortion, especially for you people that are supporters of the religions belief systems.

My female cousin, a new mother, posted a fierce pro-life status the other day, about people trying to play god

 

[Pearl]

what is so difficult to understand that many women do not believe in abortion, especially for you people that are supporters of the religions belief systems.

Why are you bringing up religion again? I get the impression you are only looking for a fight, especially when you say "you people" - how condescending.

 

[Pearl]

The point is that all women human beings should be concerned about words and actions that are belittling, trivializing or dismissive of rape.

I don't care that he's against abortion. And I'm sure he knows that rape is abhorrent and nothing to be trivialized. But words matter, and if people would take two seconds to THINK before speaking, they could avoid coming across like a careless jerk.

This!

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

You people? Not surprising I guess.

What Cori said. Being against abortion isn't the point. Anyone can do that and not speak about rape and women in such ways. And not everyone does, just this small portion of fools.

Being pro life and/or religious about it isn't making them fools about the topic- they're ignorant. Of course if someone has a predisposed bias to always connect those things, c'est la vie.

 

[Jive Turkey]

The point is that all women human beings should be concerned about words and actions that are belittling, trivializing or dismissive of rape.

I don't care that he's against abortion. And I'm sure he knows that rape is abhorrent and nothing to be trivialized. But words matter, and if people would take two seconds to THINK before speaking, they could avoid coming across like a careless jerk.

More than anything, "the rape thing" betrays his discomfort with the subject. Not a good quality for a man in an authoritative position.

Also, there was nothing wrong with deep's use of "you people". Would you have preferred he said "especially those of you who..."? Because it means the exact same thing. I swear, some people just see certain phrases and assume they're supposed to get offended by them

 

[Pearl]

Also, there was nothing wrong with deep's use of "you people". Would you have preferred he said "especially those of you who..."? Because it means the exact same thing. I swear, some people just see certain phrases and assume they're supposed to get offended by them

I was offended with deep's use of "you people" and I have a right to be. That wasn't the first time deep tried to pick a fight with me over my religious beliefs by misinterpreting my complaints over GOP candidates being insensitive to rape victims, and until the mods step in, it won't be the last.

ETA: deep's attempts to lure me into a fight are nothing more than a personal attack. I know when I am offended and I don't need someone to tell me when my feelings are invalid.

 

[Jive Turkey]

I was offended with deep's use of "you people" and I have a right to be.

yes, you have a right to be mad. I know that. You guys don't need to point out your rights to a and b everytime you're challenged on something.
He still used the phrase legitimately and the reaction is a knee jerk one.

Instead of getting upset (or in addition to), you could always address the issue he brought up. If you think he's acting like a fool, prove him to be one by showing that his point is nonsense. Otherwise this place is less about debate and more about a forum to bitch and complain about things

 

[Pearl]

yes, you have a right to be mad. I know that. You guys don't need to point out your rights to a and b everytime you're challenged on something.
He still used the phrase legitimately and the reaction is a knee jerk one.

Instead of getting upset, you could always address the issue he brought up. If you think he's acting like a fool, prove him to be one by showing that his point is nonsense

Well, deep isn't exactly known for being the nicest guy around FYM; his devil's advocate and sarcastic approach to issues is common knowledge around here. To see him try to bait me into a fight - as I see it - is like seeing his difficulty make a turn for the worse.

I told him before that I don't answer to him, and apparently that went over his head.

Otherwise this place is less about debate and more about a forum to bitch and complain about things

IMO, deep has bitched and complained about things before, through his sarcastic remarks.

If he really thinks I am being hypocritical because of my religious beliefs and how I react to GOP candidates' insensitive remarks to rape victims (because that is the case. Its not about abortion, but about the attitude towards rape victims), then he should learn to word his posts differently and stop coming across as aggressive.

 

[Jive Turkey]

Well, deep isn't exactly known for being the nicest guy around FYM; his devil's advocate and sarcastic approach to issues is common knowledge around here. To see him try to bait me into a fight - as I see it - is like seeing his difficulty make a turn for the worse.

I told him before that I don't answer to him, and apparently that went over his head.

His devils advocate style fucking irritates me as well, so me defending him on this one must mean something
If his style leads people to read all his posts in a negative light, that's his problem. I can understand that. I just felt like maybe he's raising a legitimate point (or at the very least, one that could be challenged by someone) that's being overlooked because of semantics. By all means, ignore him. But if he is just trolling, complaining about it openly only gives him what he wants and contributes noise to the convo.

 

[Pearl]

But if he is just trolling, complaining about it openly only gives him what he wants and contributes noise to the convo.

He could be just trolling. Thing is, he's been part of Interference for so long and has always behaved this way, you forget about that possibility.

 

[Jive Turkey]

Anyway, now I'm contributing noise
Back to your regularly scheduled abortion debate