Osama Bin Laden is dead. - Page 24 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind
Click Here to Login
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 05-04-2011, 02:02 PM   #461
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: London/Sydney
Posts: 6,609
Local Time: 09:57 AM
  • Costs/Security.
  • The longer it drags out (and it would be years and years - no quickie like the shonky Saddam trial under the shonky Iraqi 'justice' system) the more likely anything and everything to do with it becomes messy, ugly, and of course - this being the US - highly politically charged.
  • He remains a living symbol. Possibly/probably even a stronger one than before, or at least far stronger than he has been for years. I would think much, much, much stronger. And perhaps more openly.
  • He becomes a cause. Bomb this, hijack that, kidnap them - "Release bin Laden."

It's all of that, and kind of entering an unknown in regards to all of that. It's the question of whether this story should drag on for years and years, or whether it should just be ended right now.

I think everyone would like to (a) see the image of him captive, shackled, in one of those jumpsuits, showing signs of having been a bit roughed up, with a bunch of US soldiers standing around him smirking or something, (b) see the image of him in court getting a dressing down for the fucking ages, (c) think of him rotting in a prison, and (d) know that 'good' justice was done in a 'right' way. But... in between all of those brief snapshot moments, it almost certainly would be... very bad. I'd bet within a year, the opinion over-riding all of the above wishes would be Should have just shot him when we had the chance.

Harsh and crass, perhaps 'wrong', but think about it. I wouldn't support that with anyone else, but once every sixty or seventy years, someone comes along, and it's just too charged.
__________________

Earnie Shavers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2011, 02:08 PM   #462
Refugee
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,381
Local Time: 03:57 AM
Well, Obama has decided not to release the photos. Probably for the best. But the conspiracy nuts are going to jump on this.
__________________

lemonfly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2011, 02:16 PM   #463
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: London/Sydney
Posts: 6,609
Local Time: 09:57 AM
I think that is for the best. But I still think they should let a hundred or so journalists and ambassador-types, from all over the world, of all stripes and opinions and positions, see as much of the evidence as they can. Not just a few trusted chummy guys from the US media, but a broad cross section, extended internationally. That should take the conspiracy nut level down from about 20% to about 5%. And there's nothing - including general release of photos - that you can do about that 5%. But you know, if Rush Limbaugh gets on the air tomorrow saying there's something fishy about the lack of evidence, get him on a plane tomorrow and show the fat fuck.
Earnie Shavers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2011, 02:23 PM   #464
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
mobvok's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: boom clap
Posts: 4,435
Local Time: 12:57 AM
if the us thinks your trial would cost too much

better watch out the executioner's looming
mobvok is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2011, 02:51 PM   #465
Forum Moderator
 
yolland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,471
Local Time: 09:57 AM
Mostly, I just think the idea that there was a realistic option of taking him alive in that situation is off-base to begin with. There was a rocket-propelled grenade launched, there was a firefight in the dark, for all they knew there could've been powerful explosives present as well, there was imminent danger throughout of Pakistani police or military showing up, etc. etc. Like Earnie said earlier, if they're going to come out in their underwear with their hands over their heads waving a white flag, okay, otherwise it makes no sense to treat it as anything other than a high-risk combat operation.
__________________
yolland [at] interference.com


μελετώ αποτυγχάνειν. -- Διογένης της Σινώπης
yolland is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2011, 03:05 PM   #466
Blue Crack Addict
 
LuckyNumber7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 17,260
Local Time: 04:57 AM
Well, you don't release photos and conspiracy theorists will have a field day with it. But, as long as Osama Bin Laden doesn't appear in some propaganda tomorrow, or in a month, or a year, or ever... I say let them conspire all they'd like.

Apparently there was live feed for JSOC to watch as it unfolded. If that was the case, they should screencap any image of Osama not dead. Maybe that can give some closure to some.

Thing is, if you release a photo of Osama Bin Laden's half shot off face, which apparently happened when he took a bullet near the left eye, you're going to get a retaliation or negative media from the East slandering Obama and the United States. Sensitivity is everything right now.
LuckyNumber7 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2011, 03:23 PM   #467
Rock n' Roll Doggie
ALL ACCESS
 
vaz02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: manchester
Posts: 7,447
Local Time: 08:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lemonfly View Post
Well, Obama has decided not to release the photos. Probably for the best. But the conspiracy nuts are going to jump on this.
People want proof.
vaz02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2011, 03:24 PM   #468
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: London/Sydney
Posts: 6,609
Local Time: 09:57 AM
I think they'd be more concerned about what every idiot with photoshop will do to it within seconds. You can bet half of it will be exceedingly offensive to, I dunno, about 1.6 billion people? It's 2011, it's not something they can just show in a newspaper or on a news broadcast once, people are satisfied, and then its effectively done and gone.
Earnie Shavers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2011, 03:28 PM   #469
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 33,058
Local Time: 03:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by vaz02 View Post
People want proof.


what would satisfy you?
Irvine511 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2011, 03:32 PM   #470
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
mama cass's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 6,293
Local Time: 09:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by vaz02 View Post
People want proof.
no thanks!

i'm glad they're not releasing any photos... that would be so distasteful for one thing, not to mention inflammatory!
mama cass is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2011, 03:44 PM   #471
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
Tiger Edge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: The Everglades
Posts: 4,740
Local Time: 04:57 AM
They did release these photos of the compound and some of the other men shot and killed that night: Osama bin Laden compound in Abbottabad - in pictures | World news | guardian.co.uk

Edit: It's graphic, obviously
Tiger Edge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2011, 03:54 PM   #472
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
U2DMfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: It's Inside A Black Hole
Posts: 6,637
Local Time: 02:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by vaz02 View Post
People want proof.
People need to use their brain.

To suggest there isn't proof is to suggest a cover-up or fabrication.

So Obama, Republicans, US Military, Pakistan, Bin Laden's wife...they're all in on it?

I get it, I really do. I want to see the photos myself. Maybe just out of curiosity. But we can't always accommodate paranoid people.

Reactions to the death of Osama bin Laden - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Quote:
An Al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula member said: "This news has been a catastrophe for us. At first we did not believe it, but we got in touch with our brothers in Pakistan who have confirmed it."
AQ doesn't even need as much 'proof' as the tin-foil-hat crowd.

Again, I really do understand the desire for definitive proof.
But it probably won't change the minds of those who can't be convinced. We've seen recent evidence of this paranoid phenomenon with those who still don't believe Obama was born in the US.
U2DMfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2011, 04:36 PM   #473
Refugee
 
The_Pac_Mule's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Vermont
Posts: 1,346
Local Time: 04:57 AM
I don't understand. We give him a "proper" Islamic burial (even though it wasn't, according to most), and now we don't release any pictures or video? All in the name of not offending the Muslim world? It's Osama bin fucking Laden. I think they'll be able to deal with it. I hardly think a picture of his dead body would be a more effective recruiting tool than anything else at Al-Qaeda's disposal.

I give major props to Obama on the operation, but not on this decision.

Let's see how long it takes before someone leaks the picture, and/or video.
The_Pac_Mule is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2011, 04:45 PM   #474
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,600
Local Time: 12:57 AM
Big Grin

edit to add --- I don't know how that smiley got in there

There are a lot more down sides to releasing the picture than there are to not releasing it.

I am sure he got strong arguments on both sides.

Just like there were arguments for using drone or missile strikes to take OBL out.
If the mission went bad and Americans died, like what happened with Carter in Iran Obama would have taken a big hit. If OBL was not there, this invasion into Pakistan would have cost us dearly.

Obama made the right call with the SEALS and he made the right call with the picture. If he put it out there would be more calls to release the video that had Hillary putting her hand over her mouth as she watched what??

His young wife get shot for no reason? Obama getting shot in the face as he had his hands over his head?

No doubt about it, they got this on video, like a first person shooter video game. There should be no releases of any picture that leads to more demands for more releases.
deep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2011, 04:54 PM   #475
Forum Moderator
 
yolland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,471
Local Time: 09:57 AM
Mike Rogers (R-MI), chairman of the House Intelligence Committee:
Quote:
“I don’t want to make the job of our troops serving in places like Iraq and Afghanistan any harder than it already is. The risks of release outweigh the benefits. Conspiracy theorists around the world will just claim the photos are doctored anyway, and there is a real risk that releasing the photos will only serve to inflame public opinion in the Middle East.

Imagine how the American people would react if Al Qaida killed one of our troops or military leaders, and put photos of the body on the internet. Osama bin Laden is not a trophy--he is dead and let’s now focus on continuing the fight until Al Qaida has been eliminated.”
http://intelligence.house.gov/sites/...adenPhotos.pdf
__________________
yolland [at] interference.com


μελετώ αποτυγχάνειν. -- Διογένης της Σινώπης
yolland is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2011, 05:06 PM   #476
Refugee
 
The_Pac_Mule's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Vermont
Posts: 1,346
Local Time: 04:57 AM
Purported bin Laden corpse photos go viral, global - Yahoo! News

Quote:
Purported bin Laden corpse photos go viral, global

SAN FRANCISCO – The images are bloody, grotesque and convincing: Osama bin Laden lies dead, the left side of his head blasted away.

Unverified photos purporting to show bin Laden's corpse rocketed around the world on television, online via social media and in print almost as soon as his death was announced.

The pictures have spread without regard for their origin or whether the images are real.

Newsrooms and the public have been left in the tough spot of deciding what to believe when software has made doctoring photographs easier than ever. And the hunger for visual evidence of bin Laden's death may only grow now that President Barack Obama has said the government's photos will remain classified.

"I don't think society tolerates the invisible anymore," said Fred Ritchin, a professor of photography at New York University who has written about digital technology undermining trust in the veracity of photographs. "Everything has to be imaged."

In perhaps the most widely distributed photo, a bloodied bin Laden appears to be missing his left eye, and he is grimacing as if he died in pain. The White House says bin Laden was shot above his left eye.

Reuters reported on its photography blog that the mouth, ear and beard in the picture exactly matched a photo the news agency had snapped of bin Laden at a news conference in 1998. The upper half of the face appears to be from a different corpse.

Another photo released on the website liveleak.com shows bin Laden lying on his back with a wound over one eye as a soldier with an American flag insignia on his shoulder stands over the body. The photo is in green and black, as if taken with a night vision lens.

The website has since retracted the photo, which liveleak.com indicated was made with a photo of bin Laden digitally stitched into a still from the 2001 movie Black Hawk Down.

Another picture, by far the most gruesome, shows an extremely bloody face that resembles bin Laden with most of the skull missing and brain visible.

The spread of fake photos and the ease of making them has forced news organizations to be more vigilant than ever.

"The challenge here is these techniques are quite sophisticated," said Santiago Lyon, director of photography for The Associated Press. "A good Photoshop forger ... can make it very difficult at first glance to detect whether an image has been manipulated or not."

Experienced photo editors can often spot telltale inconsistencies such as shifts in color, contrast or light source that signal a fake, Lyon said.

For the most newsworthy photos that also raise suspicions, the AP has access to software that can analyze photos down to the level of the pixel, the basic building block of all digital images.

At least as important as the image itself is vetting the credibility of its source, Lyon said.

The AP did not escape from the lightning spread of doctored photos. The news service pulled from its wires a total of six photos — one of a Pakistani television broadcast, three of an Afghan television broadcast and two of a Bulgarian newspaper — that included apparently doctored images of bin Laden's corpse the AP could not verify.

The AP made the decision not to accompany this story with any photos claiming to show a dead bin Laden to avoid any appearance of vouching for their authenticity.

___

Follow Marcus Wohlsen at Marcus Wohlsen (MarcusWohlsen) on Twitter
They now have their fuel, I highly doubt some guy in Afghanistan who is shown the picture by the local Taliban recruiter is going to say "that's photoshopped."

But I suppose if we wait for Wikileaks to release them, then that gets rid of the whole "trophy" theory.
The_Pac_Mule is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2011, 05:18 PM   #477
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,600
Local Time: 12:57 AM
the pictures are fakes

and WikiLeaks is a criminal organization, I hope they lock them up.

If Julian Assange had gotten the files that said they had identified OBL's courier in Pakistan and the compound he would have put it online - lickety-split
deep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2011, 05:57 PM   #478
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,600
Local Time: 12:57 AM
Bin Laden, Geronimo link angers Native Americans |

do they have a valid point ?

or is this just Political Correctness gone wrong ?
deep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2011, 06:01 PM   #479
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,600
Local Time: 12:57 AM
**WARNING** graphic pictures in following link

Photos from the Bin Laden Compound


I could not look at these pictures for more than a second.

These young men most likely had wives and children, they did not choose the location of their birth that put them on the path to where they are now.
deep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2011, 06:10 PM   #480
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: London/Sydney
Posts: 6,609
Local Time: 09:57 AM
It's being suggested that one of those men - the first one - is either Hamza or Khaled bin Laden.
__________________

Earnie Shavers is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:57 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com
×