Ongoing Mass Shooting Thread #3... that's right, a third thread. Because 'Murica.

[Irvine511]

It’s disgusting, really, to try and turn yet another mass shooting into a cop-hate festival. As if that’s even close to what the issue at hand is.

How about we focus on gun control instead? How about we focus on the Republican Party and their commitment to mass death? How about we focus on the fact that more guns = more gun deaths? That “arm the teachers” is insane?

I think this event does show that good guys with guns aren’t terribly effective in stopping bad guys with guys, and that dipshit narrative offered by the NRA should be put to bed.

 

[gump]

i mean shit - let's maybe wait to confirm that this story is actually true before we start calling them cowardly?

these kind of events often have reports tied to them that end up being bullshit

Definitely not a comment made with only this example in mind. Have you not seen : pointsateverything : lately?

That said, it increasingly looks like this case confirms my priors: https://www.houstonchronicle.com/ne...icle/uvalde-school-shooting-guns-17196715.php

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

I am not trying to force anything into my political narrative. Was merely posting one article I had read. Never said it was the truth, no one knows the truth yet.

This is one reason I no longer wish to participate here and had just come here as a place to vent in about this

Martina seemed to have left here a while back too for things that were said to her at the time. She always had much to offer here. I will join her again.

i wasn't referring to you at all - i was actually taking your post as proving a point that the previous posts turning this into a "all cops are bad" shit-a-thon were bullshit. sorry for any misunderstanding - i should have quoted them to be clear.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

It’s disgusting, really, to try and turn yet another mass shooting into a cop-hate festival. As if that’s even close to what the issue at hand is.

How about we focus on gun control instead? How about we focus on the Republican Party and their commitment to mass death? How about we focus on the fact that more guns = more gun deaths? That “arm the teachers” is insane?

I think this event does show that good guys with guns aren’t terribly effective in stopping bad guys with guys, and that dipshit narrative offered by the NRA should be put to bed.

.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Definitely not a comment made with only this example in mind. Have you not seen : pointsateverything : lately?

That said, it increasingly looks like this case confirms my priors: https://www.houstonchronicle.com/ne...icle/uvalde-school-shooting-guns-17196715.php

the article is behind a paywall.


side rant - i understand that journalists need to be paid, but the idea that real actual journalism is hidden all too often behind paywalls, while the crazy is free - is kind of a problem that isn't discussed enough.

alas.

 

[mikal]

the article is behind a firewall.


side rant - i understand that journalists need to be paid, but the idea that real actual journalism is hidden all too often behind firewalls, while the crazy is free - is kind of a problem that isn't discussed enough.

alas.

Which makes very little sense because companies like USA Today Network for example, make very little profit from the paywalls. It's all about ad revenue. The irony is that a lot of companies are hesitant to put their ads on USA Today Network sites because of the paywall limiting their ad viewership.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Which makes very little sense because companies like USA Today Network for example, make very little profit from the paywalls. It's all about ad revenue. The irony is that a lot of companies are hesitant to put their ads on USA Today Network sites because of the paywall limiting their ad viewership.

exactly (and thank you for using the correct term of paywall vs. my dopey ass using firewall).

if you want ad revenue, you need to, ya know, have people see your ads.

it's a major issue. you can go on facebook or twitter or some nut job's blog and get whatever news you want for free - but it comes with the cost of a severe slant in your chosen ideology - but actual journalism gets locked away. most of the fuckers have even put a stop to the ole incognito mode workaround.

there must be a better way.

 

[gump]

the article is behind a paywall.


side rant - i understand that journalists need to be paid, but the idea that real actual journalism is hidden all too often behind paywalls, while the crazy is free - is kind of a problem that isn't discussed enough.

alas.

Sorry, somehow I managed to open the article here, maybe due to some institutional affiliation.

Basically the article was reporting that the shooter wasn't, in fact, wearing a body armor as initially thought.

Edit: just to be clear, I don't think we should demand that cops regularly get themselves into firefights with civilians armed with military grade weapons. I am not arguing that, but cops are - by asking for more and more military grade weapons for us, or by using every single incident like this to say that more cops are the solution (like Mayor Adams did callously here in NYC yesterday). Cops are not the solution, is my point. They love to play the courageous card when it suits them (more overtime, more toys, less accountability, no masks, no vaccines), but not when it suits the rest of us.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Sorry, somehow I managed to open the article here, maybe due to some institutional affiliation.

Basically the article was reporting that the shooter wasn't, in fact, wearing a body armor as initially thought.

right but that still doesn't mean that the police response was "cowardly." it doesn't mean anything without the whole picture.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Sorry, somehow I managed to open the article here, maybe due to some institutional affiliation.

Basically the article was reporting that the shooter wasn't, in fact, wearing a body armor as initially thought.

Edit: just to be clear, I don't think we should demand that cops regularly get themselves into firefights with civilians armed with military grade weapons. I am not arguing that, but cops are - by asking for more and more military grade weapons for us, or by using every single incident like this to say that more cops are the solution (like Mayor Adams did callously here in NYC yesterday). Cops are not the solution, is my point. They love to play the courageous card when it suits them (more overtime, more toys, less accountability, no masks, no vaccines), but not when it suits the rest of us.

i mean you can point to plenty of instances of cops being cowardly and not doing their jobs and someone else can point to plenty of instances of absolute heroism.

not sure this is the place or time to have that debate.

 

[LuckyNumber7]

i mean shit - let's maybe wait to confirm that this story is actually true before we start calling them cowardly?

these kind of events often have reports tied to them that end up being bullshit

Agreed

In other news, just drove by the NRA where the flag is half staff.

 

[BEAL]

Aren't most police unions or organizations AGAINST these relaxed gun regulations? They know full well that having an armed society makes their jobs even more stressful.

The issue is the guns. GQP and NRA will continue to flout their mantra of "need more guns". It's a game to them. They are filthy rich, they can afford private security for themselves and family. They know the more chaos and bloodshed, the more apathetic and fighting occurs within society which hinders any progress.

It's going to take a historically massive amount of voting Blue to change this. Even if Democrats were to hold the house, get 60+ members of the Senate, they would still need to act wisely. Until the Supreme Court is expanded, even holding Congress and Executive would not be enough. Our system is utterly broken at the moment.

It's not out of the realm of possibility to keep winning at the voting booth, but thinking Democrats are going to keep winning elections cycle after cycle just isn't rooted in reality.

We still have to try.

 

[Hewson]

Agreed

In other news, just drove by the NRA where the flag is half staff.

They're mourning the loss of one of their members yesterday after he bravely gunned down 19 innocent 4th graders?

 

[mikal]

Good for Beto. Would like to see more of this from Democrats.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Good for Beto. Would like to see more of this from Democrats.

indeed. show some god damned balls

 

[mikal]

indeed. show some god damned balls

And they might as well have had Good ole JR yell the "Son of a bitch"!

 

[david]

I know it’s been said, but damn, the idea that we’ve had more mass shootings than days this year so far is just sad.

 

[Jerry Dunk]

Whether the cops are cowardly is beside the point. I should have found a different tweet to drop in because I was not making a comment on the cops' level of courage, but rather their effectiveness. For that I apologize for derailing the discussion.

My comment below the tweet was specifically about the fact that the cops can't prevent this, and yet the ONLY response we will see will be to increase police/security funding. Nothing else will change.

We know the GOP won't help anyone. There are no good elected Republicans. It's frankly insulting that elected Democrats are still out there saying we need to get Republicans on board. How many times are we going to have to listen to that line of bullshit before it becomes accepted fact that the GOP needs to be worked through, not worked with?

 

[Irvine511]

Sorry, somehow I managed to open the article here, maybe due to some institutional affiliation.

Basically the article was reporting that the shooter wasn't, in fact, wearing a body armor as initially thought.

Edit: just to be clear, I don't think we should demand that cops regularly get themselves into firefights with civilians armed with military grade weapons. I am not arguing that, but cops are - by asking for more and more military grade weapons for us, or by using every single incident like this to say that more cops are the solution (like Mayor Adams did callously here in NYC yesterday). Cops are not the solution, is my point. They love to play the courageous card when it suits them (more overtime, more toys, less accountability, no masks, no vaccines), but not when it suits the rest of us.

I agree cops aren’t the solution — a combo of robust gun control and mental health services are — but cops aren’t the cause of this either.

I agree some cops are shit. But the sweepingly broad brush you’re using combined with condescending language (directed at the cops, not anyone in here) isn’t accurate or even useful.

 

[Irvine511]

right but that still doesn't mean that the police response was "cowardly." it doesn't mean anything without the whole picture.

It means there’s no such thing as a good guy with a gun stopping a young American male with an AR-15.

 

[gump]

I agree cops aren’t the solution — a combo of robust gun control and mental health services are — but cops aren’t the cause of this either.

I agree some cops are shit. But the sweepingly broad brush you’re using combined with condescending language (directed at the cops, not anyone in here) isn’t accurate or even useful.

"Not all cops" is eerily reminiscent of "not all men". Of course it's not all. That wasn't my point.

I agree with what Jerry Dunk said a few posts above, so I'll just leave it at that.

 

[DaveC]

Whether the cops are cowardly is beside the point. I should have found a different tweet to drop in because I was not making a comment on the cops' level of courage, but rather their effectiveness. For that I apologize for derailing the discussion.

My comment below the tweet was specifically about the fact that the cops can't prevent this, and yet the ONLY response we will see will be to increase police/security funding. Nothing else will change.

We know the GOP won't help anyone. There are no good elected Republicans. It's frankly insulting that elected Democrats are still out there saying we need to get Republicans on board. How many times are we going to have to listen to that line of bullshit before it becomes accepted fact that the GOP needs to be worked through, not worked with?

 

[BEAL]

Correct, the democrats are idiots for trying to push bipartisanship. It isn’t going to happen and there’s no going back with them. Maybe a new Conservative party but that’s generations away

https://twitter.com/acyn/status/1529604286266560512?s=21&t=DCzQYEAih_6Hx91_LnV8WQ

The issue isn’t the guns. It’s that we have too many fucking doors!!!

 

[Irvine511]

"Not all cops" is eerily reminiscent of "not all men". Of course it's not all. That wasn't my point.

I don’t agree with this formulation at all, these are not words I’ve said nor is it anywhere close to my point. And I don’t see anyone saying “more cops” in response to mass school shootings.

All of us outside of soldiers in war zones are powerless against an AR-15.

I don’t get how we go from “gun control now” to “if only we’d slashed the police budget by 40% this never would have happened.”

 

[LuckyNumber7]

Messaging is important. This isn’t a police brutality case. The police officers are in fact victims of this type of event as well. Why should they have to go toe to toe with military power weapons in order to do their job? Why should there even be a discussion about their perceived cowardice as in the case of Parkland? They’re people too.

We have a policing problem, but this is unrelated.

 

[Jerry Dunk]

Based on the reporting coming out tonight, perhaps I was hasty in walking back my comments about cops.

And yeah, politicians are already suggesting more guns, not fewer. They want to arm the teachers, hire more security/cops, even make schools with one door. And this all circles back to the real desire of the GOP: kill public education, so that the only thing the government manages is trying to kill people on foreign soil. That's literally the only thing the right wing wants the state to do: fund the people who design drones so that we can go kill more foreigners.

In 50 years, we're going to be a falling (literally, into the sea on the edges) empire that produces bombs, missiles, and medicine for life-threatening conditions jacked up in price to kill the poor ... and nothing else, except exactly enough UBI for people to spend enough to let China continue to sell to us.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

K

 

[mikal]

Glad I had kids then.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Glad I had kids then.

Somebody's going to have to harvest the crops when the apocalypse comes and it sure as shit ain't gonna be me

 

[mikal]

Somebody's going to have to harvest the crops when the apocalypse comes and it sure as shit ain't gonna be me

That's a good point, and in 50 years, I'll be in my early 90's and I'll be too senile (and drunk) to really care.