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Old 02-22-2018, 05:33 PM   #21
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None of those people bother me. They're cynical, and playing a political game, and that's why political cynics do. They can be expected to act a certain way, in certain situations. That I understand and know how to deal with.

The people who scare me are the extreme ideologues...the true believers like Pence or (shudder) Santorum. People who are so blindly devoted to any one ideology that they're ruthless in the application of their dogma.

"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." - Churchill
I agree with your points re: Pence and Santorum, but at the same time I cannot help but wince at any use of a Churchill quote. It's long past the time that we repeat or care about whatever the hell he thought, in my opinion.
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Old 02-22-2018, 05:38 PM   #22
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Oh hey, what do ya know. There was a "good guy with a gun" on campus when the shooting happened.
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Old 02-22-2018, 05:55 PM   #23
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I agree with your points re: Pence and Santorum, but at the same time I cannot help but wince at any use of a Churchill quote. It's long past the time that we repeat or care about whatever the hell he thought, in my opinion.
We'll have to disagree on old Winston. Churchill was one of the greatest leaders of the 20th century, and certainly one of the greatest Britons ever. Though obviously he had his flaws.

Plus, he's more quotable than just about anyone who ever lived with the possible exception of Shakespeare.
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Old 02-22-2018, 06:13 PM   #24
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Plus, he's more quotable than just about anyone who ever lived with the possible exception of Shakespeare.
And Yogi Berra.
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Old 02-22-2018, 06:28 PM   #25
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We'll have to disagree on old Winston. Churchill was one of the greatest leaders of the 20th century, and certainly one of the greatest Britons ever. Though obviously he had his flaws.

Plus, he's more quotable than just about anyone who ever lived with the possible exception of Shakespeare.
Yikes.
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Old 02-22-2018, 06:41 PM   #26
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We'll have to disagree on old Winston. Churchill was one of the greatest leaders of the 20th century, and certainly one of the greatest Britons ever. Though obviously he had his flaws.

Plus, he's more quotable than just about anyone who ever lived with the possible exception of Shakespeare.
One of the greatest Britons ever? Nick, are you on the turps right now?
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Old 02-22-2018, 06:54 PM   #27
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One of the greatest Britons ever? Nick, are you on the turps right now?
High on history my friend.

I don't regard that statement as particularly controversial. Brits think he's the #1 Briton anyway, BBC said so! (though that ranking was of dubious quality, as it had Princes Di at #3 above Darwin and Shakespeare).
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Old 02-22-2018, 06:55 PM   #28
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You're gonna have to get that fence surgically removed from your arse Nick
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Old 02-22-2018, 06:58 PM   #29
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Aw, you're just sore about Gallipoli.
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Old 02-22-2018, 07:12 PM   #30
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Aw, you're just sore about Gallipoli.
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Old 02-22-2018, 07:28 PM   #31
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Yes, but nut jobs can get guns. So the question is, what can you do to prevent them from getting guns, and what do you do in the interim to keep schools safe until that day comes?
Try and look for other suggestions that don't sound like attempts to turn schools into prisons? We've tried the metal detector thing, there have been guards at some of the schools where these shootings happened (and at other mass shooting events as well), and so on. Those suggestions clearly aren't proving to be deterrents to shooters. There's got to be other ways to try and help keep students safe that don't require them having to go through all that stuff just to get into their own school. Maybe we could have some proper discussion of the warning signs to watch out for, we could focus on encouraging people to tell somebody if they see somebody exhibiting those warning signs and letting those who are in charge of doing something about dangerous people be able to get them the first time they make any sorts of threats or exhibit harassing behavior, instead of letting them build a history of disturbing behavior, maybe somebody could do something about kids who think it's cool to flash and brag about their gun collections online, etc.

I acknowledge those kinds of suggestions could and likely would come with their own issues, but they are aspects worth discussing as well, and at least it'd be a change from the usual, "Arm the teachers/put armed guards in schools/have metal detectors everywhere!" arguments we hear every time.

On a different note, Ted Cruz has chimed in with his thoughts:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ons/364747002/

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During a discussion about gun rights at the annual Conservative Political Action Conference Thursday, Sen. Ted Cruz said, "The Democrats are the party of Lisa Simpson and Republicans are happily the party of Homer, Bart, Maggie and Marge."
Yep.
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Old 02-22-2018, 07:34 PM   #32
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Soooo he just said the Democrats are the smart ones and the Republicans spend half their time at Moe's?
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Old 02-22-2018, 07:40 PM   #33
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High on history my friend.

I don't regard that statement as particularly controversial. Brits think he's the #1 Briton anyway, BBC said so! (though that ranking was of dubious quality, as it had Princes Di at #3 above Darwin and Shakespeare).
Those lists are of dubious quality even when made by historians (I'd be tempted to rate Julius Vogel as the greatest person of all time, despite the fact that in my more sensible moments I'd concede that he isn't—probably), let alone when voted by the general public.

Churchill was a mediocre military man and politician who had rightly been consigned to the backbenches. That he managed to get back to the centre of British politics is remarkable, and he was indeed pretty quotable under adversity, but the guy couldn't even hold onto government at the end of the war - despite the attempt of WWII nostalgists to cast him as the greatest of "great men".

His legacy is of course complex, and he deserves some credit, but the cult of Churchill is just insane. Rankings of "great people" are a bit silly, but it's not hard to rattle off names of people with greater claims to praise.
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Old 02-22-2018, 08:30 PM   #34
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I just don’t get how countries like Canada, uk, Australia etc can have it all figured out (how many mass shootings have these countries have in the last year?) yet a country like the USA can’t figure it out? The solution is simple! Have gun control laws that make sense. Also ban organizations like the NRA from donating campaign money to politicians that they “buy”. It is really not that hard! Other countries have proven time and time again that strict gun laws actually work. Some Americans really need to stop putting the love of guns before the safety of their children. Who the fuck needs an AR or military style weapon??? Ide like to believe that those that want these weapons are compensating for something!
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Old 02-22-2018, 08:31 PM   #35
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I'll likely have more to say later, but Churchill is the Jebediah Springfield of Western political history.
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Old 02-22-2018, 08:48 PM   #36
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Ongoing Mass Shooting Thread #3... that's right, a third thread. Because 'Murica.

*insert joke about how embiggened Churchill was*
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Old 02-22-2018, 09:22 PM   #37
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Old 02-22-2018, 09:35 PM   #38
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The times, they are a changin'

https://thinkprogress.org/alamo-nati...-35d326965744/
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Old 02-22-2018, 09:35 PM   #39
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*bows cromulently*
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Old 02-22-2018, 10:13 PM   #40
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Didn’t even know these type of partnerships existed. Insane.
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