Ongoing Mass Shooting Thread #3... that's right, a third thread. Because 'Murica.

[Moonlit_Angel]

Originally Posted by ImOuttaControl

Gzusfrk, there is no point in engaging people who obviously want an echo chamber and shout down anyone with an alternative viewpoint with personal insults.

Alternative viewpoints are one thing. But many of the right-leaning posters who've been posting here in recent times have not seemed at all interested in actually engaging in any sort of debate. I tried to have civil debates with Oregoropa when he was here. Know what that got me? The realization that, after he'd been kicked out of the forum, I'd been debating with somebody who turned out to be a white supremacist troll who had creepy pervy attitudes.

I tried to have civil debates with INDY back in the day. Again, he ended up doing nothing but posting lame memes and considered that an actual debating tactic, and he eventually flamed out because he had nothing of substance to contribute to the conversations anymore. If he ever did.

And now this Gzusfrk* guy-he doesn't even stick around to actually debate his points. He pops in every few pages, makes some comment, and then leaves without even addressing much of what was said to him. How exactly am I supposed to have a debate with somebody who doesn't even stick around to try and defend their side?

*Totally didn't catch the actual meaning of his name, by the way. Duh, me.

I fully agree the personal attacks here, on either side, are completely unnecessary and do not help the situation. And I am all for people of different political stripes debating here where possible, as there were conservative posters back in the day I did have good conversations with, both political and otherwise. I'd also point out that we have Headache here, who is not a liberal, and yet somehow he manages to do just fine.

But lately, a lot of the conservatives who've posted here don't want to do that. They deal in memes, they talk about "racism scales" and say things they know full well are inflammatory in an attempt to rile people up, and they say things that are blatantly untrue. If somebody can't deal with being called out for believing or saying something that is flat out wrong, and runs away instead of learning from or trying to defend their ignorance, then that's their problem to deal with, not ours. Maybe that makes us an echo chamber, but at least with the people who stick around, it means we're having conversations with people who are smart and thoughtful enough to actually debate.

(Also, just because this forum is very liberal-leaning doesn't mean we're all in lockstep even on issues within our side of the party. Some of the fiercest debates in recent times were among us liberal posters Just look at the Clinton versus Sanders debates for an example of that in action.)

Anywho, so getting back to the actual topic of this thread at hand, apparently there was yet another shooting today, this time at a middle school in Indiana. A mere week after the one in Texas, I may add.

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/active-sho...opstories.html

I'm just going to quote Irvine's response here, 'cause this is honestly the point I'm at now with this bullshit, too:

Originally Posted by Irvine511

I really do think we need to start taking people’s guns.

[Headache in a Suitcase]

He's not right wing, he's open minded

[DaveC]

very well said, MA i would love it if we had a conservative poster here who was willing to actually have a reasoned, intelligent debate. there are lots of valid viewpoints on both sides and it would benefit us all if we could rationally discuss both sides. instead lately we've seen a guy peddling pizzagate memes, another one who only ever responded to other people's posts by quoting them and putting "" underneath them, another one who liked to post "joke" lists of racist nicknames for politicians on the other side, and one who seemed okay at first but turned out to be so racist that he literally refused to accept the idea of any person of colour contributing anything beneficial to human society in all of history, or that literally everywhere in "dark people world" (his words, not mine) was without exception the worst place on earth that everyone is clamoring to leave because "white people world" (ugh) is obviously better in every conceivable way.

if you're like that, hell no you should not be given a space to peddle that kind of shit here and you should rightly be chased off or banned. pure racist willful ignorance can fuck right off. if any conservative person who is able to have a reasonable debate and defend their viewpoints with a modicum of intelligence came in here, i not only think we would tolerate that but i think it would (and should) be welcomed - AEON was actually showered with compliments at first when he started posting here regularly because it seemed like he actually had a brain in his head and was willing to intelligently debate his views (turned out he was the worst racist shitlord of all, but that came much later). it grates on me a bit when when conclusions that are satisfactory to "our side" are rushed to or we jump to pat ourselves on the back for how not-deplorable we are and some balance sometimes would be nice.

so, gzusfrk and imouttacontrol, i encourage you both to keep posting in here regularly if you're up for it. we do need rational people from both sides in order to have healthy debates. yes you'll be challenged and yes you'll be asked to defend your views, but if you are halfway decent at debating and not a totally ignorant whacko (which neither of you seem to be at first blush) people will respect that.

the other option is to come in here once in a blue moon and make a drive-by post complaining about the forum but not actually do anything to make it better other than to tell us that we all suck, and we already know that.

[Bluer White]

Originally Posted by ImOuttaControl

Did Nick66 finally just have enough or was he banned to for not falling into the FYM orthodoxy?

[LuckyNumber7]

Was that a Negan whistle

[DaveC]

omar comin' yo

[DaveC]

i hope nick isn't gone for good. i don't think he was banned because i didn't see anything about his last few posts that i thought was close to ban-worthy so hopefully he's just decided to take a temporary break.

[Irvine511]

I think Nick got weary of people in FYM calling him on his ME!-ME!-ME! postures in a way that they don’t in other areas of the forum.

No one kicked him out, and he is quite capable of defending himself. I assume he wanted a break.

[kiwilad]

Here's an idea:
Put a new tax on all firearms. Say, 100% extra - double the cost.
The money from the tax goes into a victim support fund. Perhaps your annual license (is there such a thing?) can increase massively too for the same cause.
Will it stop the shootings? No. But it might help incentivise gun owners to lower shooting rates.

[Headache in a Suitcase]

https://youtu.be/LWjhTWv9eUs

[LuckyNumber7]

Originally Posted by kiwilad

Here's an idea:
Put a new tax on all firearms. Say, 100% extra - double the cost.
The money from the tax goes into a victim support fund. Perhaps your annual license (is there such a thing?) can increase massively too for the same cause.
Will it stop the shootings? No. But it might help incentivise gun owners to lower shooting rates.

Depends on the state but no that’s typically not a thing.

However the notion of a victim support fund is as scummy as businesses having the ability to buy carbon offsets from another business. Think about it. The booboo cover up is telling people well your kid is dead but you’re well off now.” Nah.

[kiwilad]

Originally Posted by Headache in a Suitcase

https://youtu.be/LWjhTWv9eUs

There you go

[kiwilad]

Originally Posted by LuckyNumber7

Depends on the state but no that’s typically not a thing.

However the notion of a victim support fund is as scummy as businesses having the ability to buy carbon offsets from another business. Think about it. The booboo cover up is telling people well your kid is dead but you’re well off now.” Nah.

Hmmm. I should have put in a sarcasm emoji

[PhilsFan]

American conservatism is inherently unreasonable, which is why this mythic "reasonable conservative" never materializes. There are no moderate conservatives or Republicans in America. Just look at where its spectrum is compared to the rest of the world.

This isn't really controversial to state, either. The only reason it seems to be is because of how "both sides!" obsessed our media climate allowed us to become. We can't see the forest for the trees any longer unless we make a conscious decision to open up our worlds.

Centrism in the US is right wing most other places. The Democratic Party of the United States holds many positions that would be considered right-leaning, especially its mostly unbridled love for free market capitalism.

[dazzledbylight]

Back on n the 60's and 70's there were
liberal Republicans, besides moderate ones.

[LuckyNumber7]

JFK literally undid the democratic racism on accident.

[DaveC]

https://www.pedestrian.tv/news/kinde...nursery-rhyme/

[Moonlit_Angel]

Charming. Kinda reminds me of the "Ring Around the Rosie" poem, which was supposedly about the plague (though I think that's been debated?), or that Lizzie Borden rhyme. Always good to see a new generation has its own dark rhyme to chant.

Seriously, I'm with the people in those tweets venting about what this does to kids' childhoods. I don't get how we as a country are just rolling over and letting this happen.

[MrsSpringsteen]

Multiple injuries and fatalities in Annapolis MD. Capital Gazette newspaper.

[MrsSpringsteen]

They've got the guy and he's being interviewed, so hopefully they can at least get an idea about motive