Obamacare repeal. AKA: 7 years and THIS is what you come up with?!?!

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our society is set up to punish people who have no money by demanding they pay money for everything necessary to get themselves out of poverty and then punishing them even further when they don't have it.

no money? that means you have shit credit so we won't give you money to open a business or go to school so you can actually make money.

no money? it's a shame you don't have a fixed address, so nobody will hire you so you can make money to afford two months' rent deposit on a place to live.

no money? how about a $10 bank fee every month because you have no money in your account. don't have the $10 to pay that fee right when we decide to take it? here's another $40 nsf fee on top of that for having no money. oh and that's being taken back *first* the instant you do have money again, no matter what else you may need it for.

no money? too bad you can't pay $75 for a passport or driver's license to identify yourself to employers so that they can legally hire you and you can make money.

no money? it's a shame you missed the payment on your cell phone plan this month. we're going to cut off service with no warning and charge you everything you owe plus $50 just to turn it back on. good luck getting a callback for a job without a phone!

no money? but all the jobs are downtown, and since you need to pay $3.50 to get on a bus, guess you're fucked unless you can find something in walking distance. if it narrows your opportunities by 95%, well then you can just easily move right?

it goes on and on. i admittedly (shamefully) used to have the mentality of "well shit if a panhandler gets a $2 coin on average every 10-15 minutes that's $8-$12 an hour, i make minimum wage which is $11 and i have a place to live" and wouldn't give it much more thought. but having come thisclose to being truly homeless and destitute in the past year i've come to realize how truly crushing society is to those who have money. you get a tiny bit but you already owe so much to so many it's instantly gone and chances are you're even worse off than before because the ones that didn't get paid now want even more next time you do get a couple bucks. and on, and on, and on.

"if you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever" - george orwell
Indeed! Well said!! And yet the rich get big tax cuts! But thank you for sharing! I hope you are in a better situation now and that everything works out for you! Society is shit to those who are not wealthy!
 
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Anything positive to be taken from the alleged hatred the Tea Party has for this new bill?
 
ugh, this iphone business. sure, just let your phone die (should you have the misfortune of your phone's battery eventually running out to where it doesn't hold a charge or otherwise just fucking up) so then you have no way of getting ahold of anyone! i'm not even talking about social media, even though i'm all for people being able to relax in their free time. i'm talking about people being able to call/text their boss or prospective employers. but what do these guys know or care about this, these are the "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" guys who think anything is possible if you just work hard enough. if that were true then my family and i, along with most of the working class, would be rich. and this upper crust would be broke since they just live off of their investments, so they ought to shut up about hard work since they wouldn't know about a hard day's work if it bit them in the ass.

i finally got healthcare for the first time this year since 2009, i have no idea now how much it's going to cost me after all this. and i just have the bare minimum, the stuff that states have to legally offer you in order to be aca-compliant so you don't get stuck paying the tax penalty. it was a nice relief last month to be able to go to one of those clinics in the pharmacy and not have to pay a copay, even after getting tested for the flu.

i'd like to say someone like me isn't who's on their radar for being a mooch as i work full time, but who knows? i certainly don't earn enough to support myself in this city, what with the cost of living getting so out of control here as we're experiencing such a rapid population boom, i believe more than any other american city. and i don't even live downtown! my boyfriend and i barely afford our one bedroom apartment. we could probably find something cheaper if we really tried, but i think it'd have to be one of those "you have to know someone" things because honestly, every place online was about the same rentwise. and surprisingly the public transportation sucks here, believe me i know.

going off of davec's last post, people who are in the "have" category can tend to judge those who are in the "have not" category so much and of course, those who have even more will pit everyone else to fight for the few remaining scraps. so you get people writing stuff like "why should minimum wage be $15/hour? i don't even make that much and i'm a (some kind of skilled job implying fast food is only for dumbasses)." the real point of course isn't that the guy at mcd's doesn't deserve a living wage, it's that you, skilled worker, have been grossly underpaid all these years, and that's what politicians are hoping will distract everyone which is why the idea got put aside for now.
 
i'd like to say someone like me isn't who's on their radar for being a mooch as i work full time, but who knows?

To hear people talk with such disdain about mooches makes me wonder if I am one.

When the ACA passed and Medicaid expanded in my state, I became eligible. Despite working full time, I was only making minimum wage and was still below the poverty line. That just goes to show how much minimum wage is NOT a living wage. Many of my coworkers had to work two full time minimum wage jobs just to make ends meet, leaving them no time with their families.

I was working, but still so poor that I needed government assistance. Was I a mooch?

I'm not working right now, instead I'm a full time student, working toward a degree in healthcare so that I can actually make more than minimum wage. Am I a mooch? I'm trying to better myself. I don't receive food stamps even though I am eligible to. I have chosen not to. I could work part time (again at minimum wage) while being a full time student, but I'd still be so poor that I'd receive Medicaid, and my studies would suffer. Am I a mooch?

Having access to health care and medication is the only thing that keeps me going. I have to take anxiety medicine every day just to be able to function in society. I see a therapist regularly so that my stress does not overwhelm me. I have a birth control implant in my arm secreting hormones to me daily so that my ovaries do not explode into cysts and try to kill me. All of these things cost money. Am I a mooch because I am using taxpayer money to stay healthy?

Fun fact. Most people that receive government benefits are working. They're working full time and still not making ends meet, because everything is an uphill battle. They're working their asses off for 12 cents a minute (that's the federal minimum wage, before taxes), for a rich company that squirrels away their assets and tries to avoid paying taxes. And they get called mooches.
 
Heck, I don't even have an iPhone. I don't have any of those sorts of fancy gadgets. So that statement is also insulting with its assumption that everyone who's struggling financially is just automatically "blowing their money" on those sorts of things because...no?

There's also the fact that people can sometimes get that kind of stuff as gifts-my mom has an Amazon tablet that she got from one of our relatives as a Christmas gift last year. And then there's the fact that if people do buy those sorts of fancy things, they usually often do so when they ARE in a more financially stable situation.

But hey, why bring up facts like that, right? Better to just paint all poor/working class people as being stupid and careless with money so you (general "you") don't have to help or care about their struggles.
 
My total medical bills for the 3 1/2 years I had ulcerative colitis and had to get 4 surgeries probably totaled over $500,000. Fuck Jason Chaffetz so much. He truly believes that if poor people didn't buy iPhones they could afford healthcare. I can't stress how absolutely disgusting his statement was.
 
There are things about this bill that actually do intrigue me. Namely, I have to wonder if the 30% increase in costs for lack of continuous coverage combined with keeping the rule against pre-existing conditions might work better for promoting coverage than does the current individual mandate plus penalty (ceteris paribus). The ACA is potentially death spiraling right now, so clearly the individual mandate needs some adjustment. I don't know if the 30% cost increase leads to something more or less actuarially sound, or more or less prone to adverse selection, but it's an intriguing way to try to deal with a legitimately enormous issue with the ACA.

That said, looks like this bill will be a struggle to pass anyway. Moderate Senate Republicans are none too happy about eventually repealing the Medicaid expansion, and House Freedom Caucus types are none too happy about the fact that this is still a rather major step of the federal government into health care, as compared to the pre-Obama baseline. We shall see.
 
Anything positive to be taken from the alleged hatred the Tea Party has for this new bill?

On the one hand, I'm fairly cynical about this because the Republicans are generally a lot better at herding the sheep than Democrats. The GOP has basically gerrymandered all the right-leaning Democrats out of the House. The Democratic caucus is basically united mostly because by and large the centrists are gone. So Paul Ryan has really no shot in getting them to pass any bipartisan bill. Which means his only hope is to negotiate with these Tea Party freaks which would result in a much worse bill than the one presented now.

On the other hand, Trump is totally unpredictable and while he is supporting this bill now, if he decides to take on a more disinterested role, the Freedom Caucus will be emboldened to hold out.

Polling data now has the ACA approval at 54-43%. The GOP is up deep doo-doo here.
 
everyone knows this "plan" is total bullshit and not meant to go anywhere? that it's only meant to fulfill the "repeal and replace" commitment/crisis that they've been screaming about for 7 years, and not intended to actually repeal and replace since this isn't going to go anywhere -- but they will say they've made an attempt, but Obamacare is still the law of the land, and it's the Democrats' fault (or still Obama's, or something). it's impossible to come up with a market-oriented "better than Obamacare" solution that will cover as many people, cost less, and cut taxes at the same time. it can't be done. coverage of any sort of quality costs money.

the ACA will probably remain mostly intact. i don't think Trump has the attention span to push this through.
 
The only thing that makes me doubt that this is just a dog-and-pony show is how early they trotted it out. Now I know Trump promised Day 1 but nobody with 2 brain cells to rub together believed that.

If Ryan has accepted that this is going nowhere and his longterm plan is to blame the Democrats, he has a problem when it comes to the 2018 midterms because you'll have a substantial Freedom Caucus following emboldened by the idiot in chief who will be more than happy to mount even more primary challenges. These are mouth breathers expecting a full repeal and I can see how the current ones in Congress will go home to tell their constituents that it's the RINOs who fucked this up, but what I don't get is how the RINOs expect to survive a number of primary challenges. It would be one thing if they rolled this out in a year, then you could actually campaign on the premise that "something is in the works" but rolling it out this far in advance takes away any excuse for not getting something done.
 
This era in US history will be accompanied by an asterisk.

* Contrary to some historian's theories, this was actually written by Republicans considered to be of adult age at the time.
 
To hear people talk with such disdain about mooches makes me wonder if I am one.
exactly. to me, people aren't mooches. i'm not going to try to paint people with broad strokes and say shit like "well if you work you're not a mooch" or "it's okay if you don't work as long as you're disabled/in school/etc." because i don't know each person and their situation. all i know is the amount of money spent towards medicaid, food stamps, all aid in general is a drop in the bucket, really. the real mooches, as you said, are the companies that manage to get these insane tax breaks so they pay little to no taxes. i'm not pissed at some random person on food stamps with an iphone, i'm pissed at the people who run walmart.

and this repeal thing is a joke, ftr. world's greatest healthcare plan of 2017? why stop there and not say ever?
 
From the ACTUAL BILL:

(a) SHORT TITLE.—This Act may be cited as the
4 ‘‘World’s Greatest Healthcare Plan of 2017’’.

https://www.congress.gov/115/bills/hr1275/BILLS-115hr1275ih.pdf

Was that Trump's one contribution to the language?

I still don't believe this is real, despite checking sources. Nobody is this dumb.

On the other end of the "this is bullshit" spectrum, consider how much work goes into employers setting up all the requirements. We changed our eligibility (it's still more generous than ACA called for, but we had to change the timing of it) - that was huge. Don't even get me fucking started on the work involved with setting up the reporting requirements for the IRS.

And then it's like "eh, we're getting rid of that." Fuck you, how about that? Can we have the time and money back we spent trying to sort out that nonsense?

Of course, employers shouldn't be at top of the list of who is kept in mind when these things are being planned, but when stuff like this is implemented, employers are left hanging onto crumbs of detail until the very last minute when the gov't finally decides what they meant by x, y or z, or how Q will work at all. Or they just delay it 10 times when they realize they have no idea how the details will work.

Could you assholes in charge PLEASE, for once in your silly little lives, plan out the details for employers, insurers, doctors, whoever is impacted, before you rush this shit through? (Yes, that goes retroactively for Obama, too.)

#EmployerBenefits4Lyfe

There are many things I find completely and utterly mad about the US approach to healthcare, but perhaps the maddest to me is that my employer would have any involvement whatsoever in my healthcare. The idea that Mr Capitalist Moneybags or Ms Small Business Hack or Mx Soulless Contractor would be able to determine what healthcare I get, or even know anything about my personal health requirements, strikes me as a gross breach of privacy.
 
Depending on how your company's coverage is set up, your HR person may have visibility to your health stuff. If the company pays for the bills themselves, they have more visibility. Less likely they would see anything if it's the other arrangement, in which the insurance company is paying the actual bills.

But there are privacy laws in place regarding your health information. And honestly, when our plans were in the first example, the only time we might know "Axver is having his legs replaced" is if something went sideways about billing and we got involved. Generally it was more "we spent $148,735,847 on one surgery this year" and not "we spent $4 on Axver's new legs and $3 million on Bono's hair plugs."
 
But yes, it is very weird that your place of employment is expected to be the best/cheapest way to get coverage. It has to do with what's called "group coverage" rather than buying it on your own.

I mean, it's crazy stupid complicated and ridiculous.
 
Even with privacy laws, I just struggle to conceive how or why something so personal as my healthcare should be handled by an employer, of all people. What next - it makes economic sense to get my electricity and water through work too?
 
Well, since health insurance isn't a right in this country, or at least it hasn't been, it makes sense when you realize that health insurance is a perk of employment. Obviously growing up outside of such a system, it might not make sense, but it makes perfect sense in this context.
 
I think the reason some Americans are so indifferent/cruel to the poor comes down to the idea that there's no reason you can't make it in America *if* you work hard enough. That you're doing something wrong if you're poor. It's kind of how we want to met out blame for when unfortunate things happen, instead of acknowledging that sometimes bad things just happen, or, more terrifying to some, that people are worthy of more than just what they've made of themselves. It's the notion of rugged individualism taken to an absurd degree. It ties back to the makers/takers framing we saw with Romney in 2012. That there are mooches out there, and having to support them is the reason why you're not doing as well as you might. There's racial overlap, too, as the crux of the Tea Party understanding of the world was that Obama was taking from nearly poor whites to give (health care, Obama phones) to poor blacks/browns via taxes, which no one likes since you see them on your pay stub every month and think you're putting out more than you're getting back, and everything is going to hell anyway. When I'm in Red America (which is more often than someone in here might think based upon how I'm sure I come off) I hear a lot of disillusionment and depression and nostalgia for the way things were. I find it a fairly grim place, and I live in a (rapidly gentrifying) inner-city neighborhood where I walk past homeless drug addicts everyday. And these are people who are kind and loving toward their families, and strangers. But they can't figure out why they can't get ahead, or can't live off what they could 40 years ago.

I'm not sure what I'm trying to say, exactly, but it feels like the notion of the American Dream -- something powerful and inspiring and at least partially true for a great many people -- has come off the rails these past 20-30 years. I'd say that it's the fleecing of the nearly poor by the very rich via tax cuts and policies implemented by the infusion of money into politics. If you have money, wouldn't you seek to protect it however you can? A tax cut is not always bad, and deregulatuon is not always bad, nor is the US the same as Denmark. I don't buy a left wing totslizing narrative any more than I buy a right wing narrative (even if my values are much more left).

It's complicated, but it seems to me that this health care plan is basically a tax cut, and Obamacare was redistribution. And, somehow, those who would benefit most from redistribution have been convinced that taxes are the real problem. My hope is that the threat of losing the real, tangible benefits of the ACA will provide incentive to reframe and not allow for sideshow distractions like "religious freedom" or "build a wall" -- as if that will improve anyone's life.

Just some late evening thoughts.
 
Even with privacy laws, I just struggle to conceive how or why something so personal as my healthcare should be handled by an employer, of all people. What next - it makes economic sense to get my electricity and water through work too?

I believe this is a somewhat accidental consequence of the fact that employer health plan payments are not counted as taxable income, thereby creating a channel for employers to compensate employees tax-free, benefiting both employers and employees.
 
A handy guide to calculating your health care costs:

Employer-provided health insurance costs 25 iPhones for the average family, although the employer pays most of that. The family is only on the hook for about seven iPhones.
High deductible plans are common, and the average deductible for employees is two iPhones. If you have a smaller employer, you will probably pay more iPhones than that.
If you get your insurance from the Marketplace (in other words, you have what some call an “Obamacare plan”), your out-of-pocket cost is much lower. Here’s an example for a 40-year old non-smoker who makes $30,000 a year; depending on where this person lives, their premiums could be anywhere from
three to 12 iPhones per year.

[...]

If you twist your knee in New York City and need an ACL repair surgery (as I did a few years ago), Health Care Blue Book says that a “fair” charge is 24 iPhones.
If you decide to have a baby—or if you don’t have that choice thanks in part to the bill’s defunding Planned Parenthood—pushing it out will cost you an average of 12 iPhones. This varies by location, of course, with some San Francisco hospitals charging 38 iPhones. Oh, and this isn’t counting prenatal care, anesthesia, c-sections, or complications that you or the baby might develop.
If, instead, you choose to have cancer, chemotherapy is also going to set you back quite a few iPhones. We’re looking at 113 to 218 iPhones for a typical course of breast cancer chemo, not counting other care or procedures you might end up needing. Or, to put it in simpler terms, a stack of iPhones two-and-a-half to five feet tall.

https://vitals.lifehacker.com/here-s-how-many-iphones-you-ll-need-to-not-buy-to-affor-1793056384
 
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