Obama General Discussion, vol. 5

[PhilsFan]

Originally Posted by INDY500

creepy

What is the difference between a child and a fetus?

[INDY500]

Originally Posted by PhilsFan

What is the difference between a child and a fetus?

After the 5th month about 8 inches or the length of the birth canal.

[Jive Turkey]

So has god already injected it with life syrum at that point, Indy? Or does the life syrum come right at the beginning? Something tells me you think it's the latter. Why do you point out characteristics of a fetus in the 5th month then? Surely that makes no difference to you

[Jive Turkey]

I also love how you choose the completely arbitrary length of the birth canal, because your reasoning is so rudimentary that, by virtue of having the word 'birth' in it, it carries some sort of emotional resonance with you

[Irvine511]

Originally Posted by INDY500

After the 5th month about 8 inches or the length of the birth canal.

You'll be pleased to know that the vast majority of abortions happen well before the 5th month.

[PhilsFan]

Like VAST majority. Except in those areas where people can't get safe, legal abortions. Then they tend to trend later in the pregnancy.

[Irvine511]

and often for severe medical issues.

sadly, and it's tough for the anti-choice folk to swallow, but sluts really don't be walking around at 7 months pregnant and pass a Planned Parenthood clinic and be like, "shoot, i knew there was something i been meaning to get to."

[Jive Turkey]

Indy doesn't actually care if it's 5 months or 5 weeks. He's being disingenuous

[Pearl]

What many pro-lifers don't seem to understand is that pro-choice supporters are not gung-ho for abortion. They know it is a sad, devastating decision, and is not made easily. I'm uneasy about abortion myself, and wish some women would choose to put their child up for adoption. Of course, if her life were danger or rape happened, I won't hold back.

But in the past year, with all these radical pro-lifers arguing for laws that will allow legitimate miscarriages to be investigated, determining life begins before conception (An Arizona lawmaker actually said that), and this crazy crap from Congressional candidates Akin, Murdock and even Santorum, has made me side more with pro-choicers and more adamant to say, "it's a woman's right to choose - stay away!"

[INDY500]

Originally Posted by Pearl

What many pro-lifers don't seem to understand is that pro-choice supporters are not gung-ho for abortion. They know it is a sad, devastating decision, and is not made easily. I'm uneasy about abortion myself, and wish some women would choose to put their child up for adoption. Of course, if her life were danger or rape happened, I won't hold back.

But in the past year, with all these radical pro-lifers arguing for laws that will allow legitimate miscarriages to be investigated, determining life begins before conception (An Arizona lawmaker actually said that), and this crazy crap from Congressional candidates Akin, Murdock and even Santorum, has made me side more with pro-choicers and more adamant to say, "it's a woman's right to choose - stay away!"

Abortion is a perfect example of most people being somewhere in the middle with extremists ON BOTH ENDS, making the most noise and often policy. Do you think most people who describe themselves as Pro-choice understand the extremism that goes on in the name of their cause?
A Democratic Party Platform that supports a woman's "right" to an abortion in virtually any case with no language excepting partial-birth abortions, other kinds of late-term abortions or abortion for sex-selection of the child. A platform calling for tax-funded abortion. A platform that even stripped out language that was included in the past that stated abortion should be "rare."

Do you think most Pro-choice people would argue and vote against a law that sought to protect "the right to life" of a baby accidentally delivered during an abortion as Barack Obama did as a state senator?

I choose 5 months because that is the point of likely fetal viability outside the womb. The point advances with every passing decade however.

Completed weeks of Gestation at birth-chance of survival
21 and less -- 0%
22 -- 0-10%
23 -- 10-35%
24 -- 40-70%
25 -- 50-80%
26 -- 80-90%
27 -->90%
30 -->95%
34 -->98%

Along with neonatal surgery, it's simply miraculous the advances we've made since Roe V Wade but according to our nuanced president any legal or bioethical revisiting of abortion laws written in the 70's is to “turn back the clock to policies more suited to the 1950's than the 21st Century."

The is no monopoly for "crazy crap" on this issue.

[Irvine511]

Being pro-choice is anti-extremist. It's like secularism -- by definition it cannot be extreme.

[BVS]

Originally Posted by Irvine511

Being pro-choice is anti-extremist. It's like secularism -- by definition it cannot be extreme.

The problem is the framework. INDY follows the preachings of the Laura Ingrahams, Limbaughs, and Becks of the world and they ALL frame pro-choice as people who encourage, promote, and want more abortions. And folks fall for this line of thinking, so the "extremist" comments are not surprising.

[PhilsFan]

Originally Posted by INDY500

Abortion is a perfect example of most people being somewhere in the middle with extremists ON BOTH ENDS, making the most noise and often policy. Do you think most people who describe themselves as Pro-choice understand the extremism that goes on in the name of their cause?
A Democratic Party Platform that supports a woman's "right" to an abortion in virtually any case with no language excepting partial-birth abortions, other kinds of late-term abortions or abortion for sex-selection of the child. A platform calling for tax-funded abortion. A platform that even stripped out language that was included in the past that stated abortion should be "rare."

Do you think most Pro-choice people would argue and vote against a law that sought to protect "the right to life" of a baby accidentally delivered during an abortion as Barack Obama did as a state senator?

I choose 5 months because that is the point of likely fetal viability outside the womb. The point advances with every passing decade however.

Completed weeks of Gestation at birth-chance of survival
21 and less -- 0%
22 -- 0-10%
23 -- 10-35%
24 -- 40-70%
25 -- 50-80%
26 -- 80-90%
27 -->90%
30 -->95%
34 -->98%

Along with neonatal surgery, it's simply miraculous the advances we've made since Roe V Wade but according to our nuanced president any legal or bioethical revisiting of abortion laws written in the 70's is to “turn back the clock to policies more suited to the 1950's than the 21st Century."

The is no monopoly for "crazy crap" on this issue.

What are you even talking about?

[Irvine511]

Originally Posted by PhilsFan

What are you even talking about?

Obama BAD.

[Irvine511]

oh noes!!!!

The U.S. economy added 165,000 jobs in April, according to an initial Bureau of Labor Statistics report, slightly above analyst expectations and suggesting the economic recovery, with the support of the Federal Reserve, is enduring despite the contractionary effects of sequestration and higher taxes that took effect at the beginning of the year.

But the biggest news from the Labor Department isn’t the topline payroll figure, or the unemployment rate, which dropped from 7.6 to 7.5 percent. It’s the revisions to reports from previous months, which are more certain statistically and indicate much stronger job growth this winter than initially believed.

Initial figures indicated March was a weak month for job growth, but un upward revision from 88,000 to 138,000 non-farm payrolls suggests the labor market was much healthier than originally estimated. The February payroll figure, which had already been revised up from 236,000 to 268,000, was revised again, up to 332,000 — the strongest showing for any month in years.

What emerges from the new numbers is a significant drop off from February to now, though it’s not clear what caused it or whether it will dissipate with future upward revisions to the April numbers. One disturbing possibility is that the drop off could be a reflection of the impact of austerity measures on the economy, which would suggest that absent GOP unwillingness to replace or rescind sequestration, the continuing recovery would be much more robust.

The internal figures in the April report are fairly impressive.

Retail employment, which had appeared to fall last month, is up 29,000 jobs in April, suggesting sales have endured despite an automatic two percent increase in the payroll tax at the beginning of the year. Health care continues to be a major growth industry, adding 19,000 jobs lat month.

But the public sector continues to be a drag on growth. The private sector actually added 176,000 jobs last month, according to the initial figures, reflecting the loss of 11,000 government jobs. Post office layoffs account for 3,500 of those. State and local for another 3,000. The rest were federal jobs, which along with a slight drop in average weekly hours worked, is the clearest symptom of sequestration in this otherwise fairly strong report.

Job Market Stronger Than Expected, According To Department Of Labor | TPMDC

good news for America gives the GOP the sadz.

(imagine where we'd be if not for the GOP)

[INDY500]

If you know anyone graduating from college this month you know what a thriving job market Obama has produced.

Right Irvine, kids getting out of college would be so much better off we only borrowed and spent even more money adding to their debt burden.

[Popmartijn]

Originally Posted by INDY500

If you know anyone graduating from college this month you know what a thriving job market Obama has produced.

Ah yes, the famous JOBS, JOBS, JOBS ambition that the Republicans said they would focus on. Hmm, what kind of jobs bills did they actually produce? And of course, any initiative from the president would be taken up for consideration right away...

[INDY500]

This sputtering recovery is in spite of Obama, if the government just got out of the way...

[Irvine511]

Originally Posted by INDY500

This sputtering recovery is in spite of Obama, if the government just got out of the way...

This is the exact opposite of reality.

It is. I have no idea what planet you're living on anymore.

[Irvine511]

Originally Posted by INDY500

If you know anyone graduating from college this month you know what a thriving job market Obama has produced.

Right Irvine, kids getting out of college would be so much better off we only borrowed and spent even more money adding to their debt burden.

You realize that the unemployment rate for people with a BA is 3.7%.

http://m.theatlantic.com/business/ar...ercent/272779/