Obama General Discussion, vol. 5

[anitram]

According to a Washington Post article from July 1990, George H.W. Bush ate out at Washington restaurants a lot by presidential standards, about once a month, and when he did he brought along his own condiments, bottled water, and a taster. On at least one occasion the taster was seen to personally wash all of George and Barbara's tableware before use and subsequently monitor its whereabouts, sample the food, supervise its service, and uncork and taste the first couple's wine.

But let's not let facts get in the way of your outrage, INDY.

[Pearl]

I would think any head of state would need a food taster - especially the President of the United States. If they're at risk for being shot by anyone, why aren't they at risk for being poisoned?

[the iron horse]

Originally Posted by BEAL

Didn't our government push through the Patriot Act? Do we not hold prisioners in a prison with no due process because we consider them enemy combatants? Do we not call for assinations of US citizens abroad because they might be linked to terrorist organizations? Wire tapping?

Notice I didn't label a specific group in the goverment being responsible for doing this, as both GOP and Dems have signed their names to the policies above.

Slippery slope. We want our country to be safe, but at what costs to our liberties?

I agree.

I did not vote for Bush. He trampled on our freedoms, increased big government, and went on a spending spree.

Obama has just continued this horror.





“Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.”

~Benjamin Franklin

[U2DMfan]

Originally Posted by the iron horse

I agree.

I did not vote for Bush. He trampled on our freedoms, increased big government, and went on a spending spree.

Obama has just continued this horror.

What administration do you feel had the right amount of spending?
In other words, what is the proper size of government?

You say you want a smaller government but do you (in practice)? Honestly?
I deal with this issue ALL the time in discussing politics/economics with some of the people I know. Almost all of them are of some libertarian variety. And they all want a smaller government and bitch about welfare spending and public unions, etc. Some of it is legitimate criticism, but a lot of it is ignorant to the REAL issue here. Revenues versus the Govt EVERYONE wants, even if they say they don't.

You should measure spending relative to GDP. That cancels out the inflation and population growth. In other words, saying X-trillion in 2012 doesn't really speak to 2002 or 1992 or 1982 or 1972.

But if you measure it relative to GDP, you really get an equitable sense of how big the spending was in any given fiscal year as a part of the whole.

The basic conservative mantra for the last 30 years has been 18% of GDP is ideal. And yet no President in 40 years (or perhaps more?) has kept spending that low. We simply can't operate on such a low amount of spending.

If the President is Reagan, Clinton, Bush or Obama, we are going to be at no less than 19%. And given increasing life expectancy and dealing with Social Security and Medicare, no serious future conversation should be below 20%.

I would say 20% (spending) is about right.
And in those same 40 years, we've hit 20% (GDP) revenues only ONCE.
We aren't even giving ourselves a chance to balance the budget.

It is a math problem and a revenue problem.
And of course 24% (the current number) makes it a spending problem too.

Bush's spending wasn't out of line with Clinton's 4 consecutive balanced budgets. The biggest difference? They cut taxes twice. Revenues. The patron saint of conservatives, Reagan had higher spending (of GDP) than W Bush.

The personal liberty issues are a different thing.
I just feel like I am constantly at war with 'popular' libertarianism.
It's not fighting the right battle. I blame Ron Paul for a lot of this.

[PhilsFan]

I like your post.

I am a Libertarian at heart. I think government is just a small part of my life.

Who's to say government is a certain size?

~ My estimation of Iron Horse's response.

[Jive Turkey]

Originally Posted by the iron horse

“Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.”

~Benjamin Franklin

Great quote from a great slave owner

[INDY500]

So we can disregard say... evolution, if Charles Darwin was a raging racist?

[PhilsFan]

That doesn't make sense since racism doesn't relate to evolution in the way that slavery relates to freedom.

[Jive Turkey]

Originally Posted by INDY500

So we can disregard say... evolution, if Charles Darwin was a raging racist?

I guess the point that a lot of values (you like talkin' about them, right?) from Franklin's time are completely irrelevant today was missed? C'mon Indy. You're smarter than that.

[INDY500]

[Jive Turkey]

2/10

[PhilsFan]

Well that's a thing I guess.

[Dragonfave]

Obama will return 5 percent of salary in sequester solidarity

[BEAL]

socialist

[Pearl]

Last night was the White House Correspondents' Dinner. I was looking at articles about it and I felt uneasy seeing so many celebrities at this event. Even E! has a red carpet show for this. It's become another Hollywood social event.

I know celebrities attending this is nothing new but seems to have grown more in recent years and I just don't like it. I also felt uneasy seeing non-American celebrities like Natalie Dormer, Psy and Michelle Dockery at this. Isn't the WHCD for American politics and the journalists who cover them? Where does Hollywood fit into this? It's become a joke and I feel a little embarrassed. No, I'm not blaming Obama because celebrities at the WHCD is nothing new. But they've overwhelmed this event and it's a ridiculous.

[Taylor Swift]

Hi everybody! I do like Barack Obama! He seems like such a sweet man and a good father!

I was at a restaurant in New York City in 2008 when he was elected, and Stevie Wonder was there, and Stevie he got up and made such a compelling speech about how important it is to have a figure like Mr. Obama in our country. Love you guys! Drink Diet Coke!

[Diemen]

Don't drink and create alters post, kids.

[Pearl]

Originally Posted by Taylor Swift

Hi everybody! I do like Barack Obama! He seems like such a sweet man and a good father!

I was at a restaurant in New York City in 2008 when he was elected, and Stevie Wonder was there, and Stevie he got up and made such a compelling speech about how important it is to have a figure like Mr. Obama in our country. Love you guys! Drink Diet Coke!

Gee, I wonder who this could be

[INDY500]

"While no law or set of laws will end gun violence, it is clear that the American
people want action. If even one child’s life can be saved, then we need to act."

"Thank you, Planned Parenthood. God bless you."

creepy

[corianderstem]

.