Obama General Discussion, vol. 5

[Irvine511]

Originally Posted by PhilsFan

I don't think the email thing is a stupid scandal. It's rather Rovian.


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Explain?

[PhilsFan]

Literally, he had a similar email problem while working in the White House:

Students Lie in Front of Car, Delay Rove After Speech

Goodman said students went to the Ward Circle building where Rove spoke to make a "citizen's arrest" of the presidential adviser. He said the students claimed they had compiled evidence indicating that Rove had violated what they say is a presidential records act stipulating that all presidential e-mail be recorded on White House servers.

How in the fuck is Jeb Bush more transparent than Hillary Clinton?

[anitram]

Maybe it's because I am a lawyer, but I would never dream of dealing with clients from my personal e-mail account. It's actually astounding to me that Hillary, also a lawyer and a professional and educated woman would find it fit to use a personal e-mail address "out of convenience."

I am not suggesting there is necessarily anything nefarious in the content of the e-mails. It's just a stupid thing that somebody at her level should never have even considered. She is as much her own enemy as anything.

[PhilsFan]

Right. At the very least, it's an astonishingly poor understanding of public relations, and that's assigning your best hopes that everything is on the up-and-up. Which, didn't they essentially pick-and-choose which emails they turned over from her account? So, yeah. It's a bad look.

[Irvine511]

Originally Posted by anitram

Maybe it's because I am a lawyer, but I would never dream of dealing with clients from my personal e-mail account. It's actually astounding to me that Hillary, also a lawyer and a professional and educated woman would find it fit to use a personal e-mail address "out of convenience."

I am not suggesting there is necessarily anything nefarious in the content of the e-mails. It's just a stupid thing that somebody at her level should never have even considered. She is as much her own enemy as anything.

yes, exactly. but this is what the Clintons do.

[bobsaget77]

Karl Rove 2016


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[BEAL]

Good segment on daily show about this.

Both sides have done it, tho dems didn't write a letter.

Pelosi met with Assad back in 2007 against wishes of Bush.

Our system is beyond stupid and repair.


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[bono_212]

Originally Posted by anitram

OK - what are her firm policy positions?

I think she lost herself a long time ago and I doubt that she herself has any idea what she believes in anymore.

This is not to say that the political circus on the Republican side, which is pathetic and laughable would in any way whatsoever be better. But to me, Hillary Clinton is the singularly most disappointing political figure of the last decade.

Tbh, I was in college at the time and the big thing I remember is student loan forgiveness plans that I liked, and a universal health care policy that I also liked AT THE TIME, but I'm retrospect was a bit too like Obama's, which I hate.

I haven't done much refreshing yet, because the election, and even the primaries are far too along in the distance for me to care atm

[bobsaget77]

Originally Posted by BEAL

Our system is beyond stupid and repair.


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[deep]

Originally Posted by Irvine511

Watching this stupid email drama unfold on the news this morning made me want to lie down in the middle of the street. It's one reason I was so much more pro-Obama in 2008 than Hillary. I don't want to get sucked back into these bonkers 1990s Clinton non-scandal scandals and watch the right wing hiss and foam -- though the Clintons play their own part in all of this. It really has been no-drama-Obama for the past 7 years, and I've appreciated that.

I will vote for her against any conceivable GOP candidate, but I already have Clinton fatigue and she hasn't even announced yet.

No drama Obama really?
Bengazi
Fast and furious
IRS target conservative groups

[nbelcik]

Originally Posted by deep

No drama Obama really?

Bengazi

Fast and furious

IRS target conservative groups

Benghazi is not a scandal, multiple House panels have debunked every right wing claim about the attacks. Second, the IRS did not "target" conservative groups. They examined them more closely than other groups, but the IRS also examined progressive groups more closely. They were making sure all those groups were following the law. Fast and Furious is a scandal though, (even though a similar program started under Bush).


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[deep]

Whitewater was not a scandal
Vince Foster's death was not a scandal

the point is the GOP go nuts on whatever Democrat is elected president and make scandals out of anything

[Irvine511]

Originally Posted by deep

No drama Obama really?

Bengazi

Fast and furious

IRS target conservative groups

Yes. Really.

Given that half of those are bogus, that's anamaIng track record for a presidency now in its 6th year.

[anitram]

This does a great job of summarizing my points:

Hillary Clinton Is Turning Into Richard Nixon and Bill Belichick | Rolling Stone

The Clintons have always been cynics. They invented a brilliant formula for competing with the Republicans in the big-money era of politics. They brought people like Goldman chief Bob Rubin into the tent to implement enough deregulation to score vital fundraising dollars, while electorally, they used welfare reform and remarks about Sister Souljah to triangulate back just enough of those Southern "silent majority" votes (the ones seemingly lost forever in the Nixon days) to rework the electoral map in the Democrats' favor.

It worked. It was ingenious. But over two decades into our relationship with the Clintons, it's still really hard to know what motivates them, beyond getting off on being smart politicians.

They're not idealists. In fact, they were pioneers of a sneering attitude you find everywhere in Washington these days, one that rolls its eyes at "purists" who don't have the stones to do what it takes to win (like voting for the Iraq war so as not to look "soft on defense").

They clearly love the game and they love winning. They're both masters of it, Hillary maybe even more than Bill. But that's not the same as having a belief system. It might be for a football coach. But a president needs something more, and it's hard to say what that something is for Hillary.

[Oregoropa]

Remember Nancy Pelosi meeting with Assad against the GOP administration's wishes in 2007 on her whirlwind Mideast tour ? . Cuts both ways


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[Irvine511]

Originally Posted by Oregoropa

Remember Nancy Pelosi meeting with Assad against the GOP administration's wishes in 2007 on her whirlwind Mideast tour ? . Cuts both ways


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Is this the same thing, or just a really lazy comparison?

[deep]

Iran

or

Barack Obama on Iran: 'It is a good deal.'

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2015/0...#ixzz3WBXdTQH3
http://www.politico.com/story/2015/0...gh-116618.html

[anitram]

A deal with Iran would be huge.

And would depress the oil price even further and for longer. Which explains a great lot of the opposition to it, as usual, follow the money.

[deep]

Everybody speaking against this,
the impression I am left with is just that they are cold hearted bastards.


http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/03/middle...-nuclear-deal/

[DaveC]

Originally Posted by anitram

A deal with Iran would be huge.

And would depress the oil price even further and for longer. Which explains a great lot of the opposition to it, as usual, follow the money.

A group of the traders I work with are busily selling everything their funds have in oil stock right now precisely because the market isn't considering this possibility at all in pricing shares yet.