NYPD brutality

[BVS]

for all the conservatives reading this, these are actual photos of the American Left. this is what they look like, this is what they are protesting. also note that their signs are spelled correctly.

the people who occupy the White House and the vast majority of Dems in Congress are clearly to the right of these people, thus putting them in the political center.

this is the Left. this is who you pretend the president is. he's not one of them. these people are mad at Obama precisely because his policies on the economy and health care were policies supported by even moderate Republicans just a few years ago.

for all the conservatives reading this, these are actual photos of the American Left. this is what they look like, this is what they are protesting. also note that their signs are spelled correctly.

the people who occupy the White House and the vast majority of Dems in Congress are clearly to the right of these people, thus putting them in the political center.

this is the Left. this is who you pretend the president is. he's not one of them. these people are mad at Obama precisely because his policies on the economy and health care were policies supported by even moderate Republicans just a few years ago.

for all the conservatives reading this, these are actual photos of the American Left. this is what they look like, this is what they are protesting. also note that their signs are spelled correctly.

the people who occupy the White House and the vast majority of Dems in Congress are clearly to the right of these people, thus putting them in the political center.

this is the Left. this is who you pretend the president is. he's not one of them. these people are mad at Obama precisely because his policies on the economy and health care were policies supported by even moderate Republicans just a few years ago.

I can almost gurantee that not one conservative will respond to this. Their whole platform would be DOA.

 

[Achtung11]

The formal warning is for continuing with the insults after my first comments.

Bickering with mods when they tell you to cool it isn't okay, either.

Ok, but the two people who insulted me didn't get first comments. This isn't bickering, I'm just trying to know why me.

 

[PhilsFan]

Ok, but the two people who insulted me didn't get first comments. This isn't bickering, I'm just trying to know why me.

Because you're acting like a petulant child and they're not?

 

[Achtung11]

Because you're acting like a petulant child and they're not?

Nah. The rule is: no insults. Not: no childish insults. Nevertheless, I'm not acting like a petulant child. Nice try though.

 

[Vlad n U 2]

All of you are equally childish.

/argument

 

[Achtung11]

All of you are equally childish.

/argument

Thank you. I can take that.

What I don't like is someone tells me to go fuck myself and I say something which I think is a good comeback and everyone jumps on me because apparently I went "way too far" and the first person merely "crossed the line". Sure, what I said was horrible. But since when is "go fuck yourself" not horrible? I think everyone is just used to that phrase, whereas it's not everyday you hear "the shit in your head is a pathetic excuse for a brain". And so my comment really hit a nerve with people, while mostly everyone has grown tolerant of the other comment.

But thanks for understanding that both sides are equally wrong, unlike others who decide to jump on only me as if I said something sinful, much like the cops in the videos.

 

[canedge]

I think Achtung11 is just trying to make a point 'how the people rule' according to the US Constitution. Many people don't have that level of comprehension and haven't taken the intellectual leap that understanding that it requires.

Sadly Jive Turkey just read legalese and dismissed the inherent content. I am sure many cops are loaded with bias, and class understandings. Especially in New York.

BTW, the very definition of terrorist is a flexible term. Jefferson said that revolution and dissent are constantly necessary to rid systems of their corrupting influences. In some situations a terrorists could be a freedom fighter.

And yes the video is selective as well.

 

[Diemen]

Okay, rather than commenting on people's intellectual capacity or level of childishness, or continuing to argue about levels of inappopriateness on display in this thread, let's just stick to the topic.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

I told you to go fuck yourself in a fit of rage at you calling relatives and friends of mine "terrorists." Perhaps it was out of line... perhaps.

Have you been to any of these protests? I have. When someone lays in the street and refuses to move, blocking traffic in a dense urban environment... how would you suggest the police officer removes said person?

These "protesters" are spitting at police officers, employing tactics that force the police's hands, like the one I mentioned (and witnessed) before, and conveniently waiting until the response to turn their Apple iPhone on to record the video that they will then upload to Google owned YouTube. Yay for irony!.

People have a right to peaceful protest. They do not have the right to block traffic, prohibit others from going about their livelihoods, and certainly don't have the right to assault police officers.

There are a few hardcore anarchists down there who are fueling the fires of the majority, who are made up mostly of upper middle class spoiled white kids, a large number of whom will go back to Williamsburg at night. Yay for more irony, a small percent controlling the masses! They like to compare themselves to the protesters of the arab spring, and then cry that they're going to get their lawyer because their zip tie cuffs were too tight.

They are not helping.

 

[Diemen]

I told you to go fuck yourself in a fit of rage at you calling relatives and friends of mine "terrorists." Perhaps it was out of line... perhaps.

You've been around this forum long enough. You know it's out of line.

 

[Achtung11]

I told you to go fuck yourself in a fit of rage at you calling relatives and friends of mine "terrorists." Perhaps it was out of line... perhaps.

Have you been to any of these protests? I have. When someone lays in the street and refuses to move, blocking traffic in a dense urban environment... how would you suggest the police officer removes said person?

These "protesters" are spitting at police officers, employing tactics that force the police's hands, like the one I mentioned (and witnessed) before, and conveniently waiting until the response to turn their Apple iPhone on to record the video that they will then upload to Google owned YouTube. Yay for irony!.

People have a right to peaceful protest. They do not have the right to block traffic, prohibit others from going about their livelihoods, and certainly don't have the right to assault police officers.

There are a few hardcore anarchists down there who are fueling the fires of the majority, who are made up mostly of upper middle class spoiled white kids, a large number of whom will go back to Williamsburg at night. Yay for more irony, a small percent controlling the masses! They like to compare themselves to the protesters of the arab spring, and then cry that they're going to get their lawyer because their zip tie cuffs were too tight.

They are not helping.

I wasn't referring to friends and relatives of yours, I was talking about the specific cops in the videos. In other words, I didn't say all NYPD cops are terrorists, just the ones hurting the people for no reason.

Yea, the people who block traffic, etc. deserve to be arrested. But the people who got pepper sprayed for no good reason? They definitely don't. And I think even you agreed that the cop who pepper sprayed should be brought to justice. And I don't think all of these incidents happened because the person caused trouble, because these incidents seem to happen a lot, around the world, as experienced by numerous people in this thread.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Perhaps I misunderstood your use of "fuck the police" immediately after calling police officers in this and in an other instance terrorists... perhaps.

The cop who used pepper spray in that instance should be punished appropriately upon a thorough investigation. Nobody knows if someone else in the crowd had a weapon that caused the officer to act in that manner. It appears that nobody did, ans in that case he should be punished

 

[Jive Turkey]

I think Achtung11 is just trying to make a point 'how the people rule' according to the US Constitution. Many people don't have that level of comprehension and haven't taken the intellectual leap that understanding that it requires.

Sadly Jive Turkey just read legalese and dismissed the inherent content. I am sure many cops are loaded with bias, and class understandings. Especially in New York.

BTW, the very definition of terrorist is a flexible term. Jefferson said that revolution and dissent are constantly necessary to rid systems of their corrupting influences. In some situations a terrorists could be a freedom fighter.

And yes the video is selective as well.

What a load of semi-comprehensible gobbledygook

 

[Jive Turkey]

Oh, and Headache, I really hope you didn't take personal offense to my first post. If you did, I'm sorry. I did make it clear that I have limited experience with the nypd, as I'm sure there are many more great cops than shitty ones. As you said, it's a large force and they no doubt have to hire a lot of people that wouldn't make the cut in a smaller city

 

[canedge]

employing tactics that force the police's hands

I would agree with this statement in many current protests around the world save the Arab spring.

 

[canedge]

When someone lays in the street and refuses to move, blocking traffic in a dense urban environment... how would you suggest the police officer removes said person?

I would actually like an answer to this as well.

 

[canedge]

There is a really valid statement in what someone said about the US Constitution. People do have an inherit right to protest.

 

[Irvine511]

ok ... well, on a related note, while i am not a BOA customer, i find it heartening that consumers are venting their anger at these bullshit fees.

Boston police arrest 24 in US bank protest

(AFP) – 2 hours ago

NEW YORK — Twenty-four protesters were arrested as a vast crowd marched outside Bank of America offices in Boston, police said Saturday in the latest US demonstrations against corporate influence and greed.

Nine men and 15 women were charged with trespassing for their part in a sit-down protest Friday afternoon, said Boston police spokesman Eddy Chrispin.

"They were asked to remove themselves, and they opted to be arrested," Chrispin told AFP.

Right to the City, the coalition of advocacy groups that organized the demonstration, said the event was held to protest corporate greed and to stop bank foreclosures.

According to organizers, some 3,000 people marched outside the bank. Police did not provide a crowd estimate.

A Bank of America spokesman dismissed the protest as part of "increasingly aggressive PR stunts," and told local media the demonstrators are ignoring the bank's efforts to help homeowners in distress.

Bank of America, the largest US bank in terms of assets, recently announced it would lay off 30,000 employees and slash $5 billion from its annual costs by 2014 as part of a sweeping restructuring plan.

"While the CEOs rake in millions in salary and bonuses, major corporations are laying off thousands of workers each month," Right to the City said on its website. "Enough is enough."

The bank's stock has tumbled in recent months amid doubts about the strength of its capital base and mounting legal costs from its disastrous involvement with subprime mortgages before the 2008 financial crisis.

The Boston protest appeared to dovetail with demonstrations in New York city, where more than 1,000 mainly young activists have been protesting for the past two weeks over the Wall Street bailout and corporate influence in US politics.

The group calling itself "Occupy Wall Street" said on its website that it staked its ground in downtown Manhattan "as a symbolic gesture of our discontent with the current economic and political climate."

"We are all races, sexes and creeds. We are the majority. We are the 99 percent. And we will no longer be silent," it said, expressing "solidarity" with protesters in Boston.

The group said a march in New York was planned for Saturday afternoon.

i know, i know ... "it's because the government regulated the banks after they nearly destroyed the world! those poor banks have no other choice! they have to continue to make obscene profits, especially their executives! that's why they're forced to leverage new fees on their consumers and then sob about how Washington made them do it!"

at least it's nice to see populist anger focused on the proper targets -- not on DC, but on the puppetmasters who control DC.

these people probably have more in common with the Tea Party than they think, or than the Tea Party would care to admit.

 

[deep]

the $5 debit fee was thought up from the same consultant that was most recently was advising Netflix

that being said, I am annoyed at the hackers (anonymous?) attacks on the online site, I have had accounts there since I was 12, and the site has been off line, the last couple of days

 

[Achtung11]

ok ... well, on a related note, while i am not a BOA customer, i find it heartening that consumers are venting their anger at these bullshit fees.

i know, i know ... "it's because the government regulated the banks after they nearly destroyed the world! those poor banks have no other choice! they have to continue to make obscene profits, especially their executives! that's why they're forced to leverage new fees on their consumers and then sob about how Washington made them do it!"

at least it's nice to see populist anger focused on the proper targets -- not on DC, but on the puppetmasters who control DC.

these people probably have more in common with the Tea Party than they think, or than the Tea Party would care to admit.

The fees are ways of making more money yes, but the banks have also had to cut or limit many ways of making money, both voluntarily and by new regulatory requirements. Examples include: debit card merchant fees, overdraft fees, ATM overdraft fees, and credit card fees.

Bank of America in particular stopped allowing debit card purchases if there is no money in the account. It used to be that the customer was charged a $35 fee for overdrafts. The Federal Reserve made new rules that forbid banks from charging overdraft fees unless customers allow it and BofA got rid of allowing overdrafts all together.

In addition to the cutback in fees, like you mentioned, U.S. and international capital requirements have become much stronger after the financial crisis. The banks now have to hold more equity capital than they used to. This means that overall profitability decreases.

So in order to offset the decreasing profitability and the loss of various sources of fees, monthly debit card and other fees are being introduced for customers of many banks.

The profits may seem obscene to you and many others, but you have to apply to their large capital bases, BofA's which is currently $220 billion and possibly will have to be increased with Basel III (new international capital standards which will take effect in the next few years). A sufficient income on that capital base is desired. After all, this is a money making business, not a non-profit organization. And banking is a competitive industry - there are roughly 7,000 banks in the country. If the fees become too high and unnecessary, they will come down.

As far as lobbying in D.C. goes, I disagree that the protest should be taking place on Wall Street. Wall Street may be feeding money to Washington in order to influence lawmakers, but can you really blame them? It's the lawmakers who should be responsible not to let money influence their decisions. If I had billions of dollars and knew that I can use the money to lobby Washington effectively, I'd probably do it too. The overall culture of lobbying with money needs a fix, and that fix can only be made in Washington.

And re: the banks nearly destroying the world. They get more blame than they deserve. There were many other parties involved as well, including: mortgage borrowers, mortgage brokers, home builders, house flippers, investors, investment banks, insurance companies, rating agencies, Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac, the Federal Reserve, and Washington D.C. They were all sipping the same kool aid.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Oh, and Headache, I really hope you didn't take personal offense to my first post. If you did, I'm sorry. I did make it clear that I have limited experience with the nypd, as I'm sure there are many more great cops than shitty ones. As you said, it's a large force and they no doubt have to hire a lot of people that wouldn't make the cut in a smaller city

None taken.

The NYPD is larger than some armies. They have to protect a city twice as large as the next biggest city in the US. Some bad apples will slip through the next cracks. When they are found, they should be dealt with.

All in all they do an excellent job, especially considering how difficult a job it is.

 

[cobl04]

explain your avatar.

i'm from Connecticut, originally.

/off topic.

it's from How I Met Your Mother

 

[Irvine511]

So in order to offset the decreasing profitability and the loss of various sources of fees, monthly debit card and other fees are being introduced for customers of many banks.

The profits may seem obscene to you and many others, but you have to apply to their large capital bases, BofA's which is currently $220 billion and possibly will have to be increased with Basel III (new international capital standards which will take effect in the next few years). A sufficient income on that capital base is desired. After all, this is a money making business, not a non-profit organization. And banking is a competitive industry - there are roughly 7,000 banks in the country. If the fees become too high and unnecessary, they will come down.

oh, i understand how it works. BOA customers can respond to it how they see fit, and i look forward to the increasing popularity of credit unions. my point is that it's refreshing to see actual populist anger directed at the banks, rather than at Washington. reasonable people can disagree about the proportion of blame to be assigned to whomever or whatever, but it's refreshing to see something beyond the, "where's my bailout, Obama?" that has dominated this conversation since TARP.

 

[Achtung11]

oh, i understand how it works. BOA customers can respond to it how they see fit, and i look forward to the increasing popularity of credit unions. my point is that it's refreshing to see actual populist anger directed at the banks, rather than at Washington. reasonable people can disagree about the proportion of blame to be assigned to whomever or whatever, but it's refreshing to see something beyond the, "where's my bailout, Obama?" that has dominated this conversation since TARP.

Ah okay, yea then I'm glad you get it. And yea, it really annoys me too when people blame the President. And TARP was actually Bush's plan, not Obama's, but many people don't realize that because it was passed near the end of Bush's term. As much as I hate Bush, he did a very good thing by supporting TARP. And as much as I hate Bush, he doesn't deserve nearly as much blame as others do in the crisis.

If you're looking for non-government directed blame, just do a quick search of "Goldman Sachs" and you'll find most of it.

 

[patternshirt170]

Some of the posts in this thread anger me to such a level I had to leave before I returned to post... specifically the ones calling these officers and the NYPD "terrorists."

The people being pulled and "dragged" were resisting arrest. They refuse to move upon being arrested, which leads to them being forced to move. There is nothing wrong with what the officers did.

I won't defend the pepper spray incident that was on video. That officer should be punished.

On the whole the nypd does an outstanding job protecting this city. There will always be problems, especially with such a large force. There are problems in all walks of life. Nobody is perfect, and police corruption should be punished if and when it is discovered.

Calling the NYPD terrorists is disgusting. Honestly... whoever it was that said that, go fuck yourself.

I hear you. bro-in-law is a cop I know what he puts up with every single day, you know avoiding getting his head blown off and widowing his wife and two 10 and 11 yo kids.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

so the NYPD is being accused of making unjust mass arrests by leading a peaceful protest onto the brooklyn bridge for the purpose of arresting them! bunch of pigs, maaaaaan!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rwWmM1h-P8&feature=colike

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSf7JzpD7kg

NYPD Arrests 700 #OccupyWallStreet Protesters On The Brooklyn Bridge - YouTube


...or perhaps they were warned not to "take the bridge" under threat of arrest, did so anyways, and the cops, ya know, tried to keep the situation orderly and protected them from, ya know, marching into oncoming traffic on an active roadway.

 

[Tiger Edge]

so much time being wasted

so so much

can't someone open up a t-shirt factory in hoboken where they make shirts with guy fawkes masks and cutesy sayings and just hire these people to make them?
and then the mythological mexicans will take those jobs anyway

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

the guy fawkes masks are trademark of time warner, so every time one of these guys buys one to wear, the big ugly corporation gets a piece of the action! oh, irony!

 

[Tiger Edge]

the guy fawkes masks are trademark of time warner, so every time one of these guys buys one to wear, the big ugly corporation gets a piece of the action! oh, irony!

 

[Dfit00]

In first-world minds, these types of attacks from the police are considered outrageous and something that should not exist because that's just the way it is. The law is the law in its sense and the crime should be punished no matter who it is or what it is.

That's not necessarily true in other parts of the world, take Venezuela for example. A corrupt society where cops and crooks team up to get the crime done as a bribe. Burglars, kidnappers, or drug traffickers negotiate a deal with the police department of a given town so that they can achieve their goal and then pay a 20% to 50% of what was earned from the crime as a bribe to the cops that were involved and allowed the crime to be done without any intervention from the authorities before, during, and after.

People in these types of countries are actually more afraid of the police than they are of real criminals. What can you do when there is no legal authority to establish law enforcement?

"To protect and serve", after all...

Venezuela