New York's Finest

[MrsSpringsteen]

Thought I would give this a separate thread outside of feel good stories, mainly because we have had many threads here about some bad things police officers have done.

I saw the officer on the news and he said that the man acted as if he gave him a million dollars. How many people passed by that man with no shoes and just kept on walking? How many people do that every day? It just truly touched me. A simple gesture that anyone with money enough could do, and it just means so much. Only twenty five years old- I hope that officer has a long career ahead of him. To protect and serve, he truly knows what that means.

A photo of a New York City police officer kneeling down to give a barefoot homeless man in Times Square a pair of boots on a cold November night is melting even the iciest New Yorkers' hearts online.

On Nov. 14, NYPD officer Lawrence DePrimo, who was on counterterrorism duty in Times Square, saw the older homeless man without shoes sitting on 42nd Street. DePrimo, 25, left and then returned with a pair of $100 boots he bought at a nearby Skechers store.

"It was freezing out, and you could see the blisters on the man's feet," DePrimo, a three-year veteran of the department who lives with his parents on Long Island, told the New York Times. "I had two pairs of socks, and I was still cold."

The random act of kindness was captured by Jennifer Foster, a tourist from Florence, Ariz., who was visiting the city. Foster, communications director for the Pinal County Sheriff's Office in Arizona, emailed the photo to the NYPD with a note commending DePrimo.

"The officer said, 'I have these size 12 boots for you, they are all-weather. Let's put them on and take care of you,'" Foster wrote. "The officer squatted down on the ground and proceeded to put socks and the new boots on this man.

"I have been in law enforcement for 17 years," she continued. "I was never so impressed in my life. ... It is important, I think, for all of us to remember the real reason we are in this line of work. The reminder this officer gave to our profession in his presentation of human kindness has not been lost."

 

[Vlad n U 2]

That's nice but, police still exist to protect the state and private property. No one nice deed is going to make me accept their wrongdoings.

 

[Pearl]

I do love this story. I heard on the local news radio that his commissioner gave him NYPD cufflinks to reward his kindness.

Most people ignore the homeless in New York because they're usually on drugs, drunk or simply mentally unstable, and also they smell. That's why I'm surprised that this guy - who probably had lived on Long Island for nearly or all his life - would be so genuinely concerned about a homeless man, even if he was barefoot. Clearly, he's unaffected by the cynicism and jadedness many in NYC have.

It makes me wonder what I'd do the next time I see a homeless person.

 

[bonocomet]

This reminds me of something the last time I was in Las Vegas. We were sitting at a Starbucks on the Strip, where outside our window a small group of I think 4 homeless men were sitting beside a wall. A man pulling a small rolling suit case came up and sat with them. He opened it up and pulled out bagfuls of new packaged socks and other clothing items, toiletries, and various basic needs and passed them out. He sat and talked with them for at least half an hour as well and shared something to eat while he visited with them. We thought that was pretty neat.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

This reminds me of something the last time I was in Las Vegas. We were sitting at a Starbucks on the Strip, where outside our window a small group of I think 4 homeless men were sitting beside a wall. A man pulling a small rolling suit case came up and sat with them. He opened it up and pulled out bagfuls of new packaged socks and other clothing items, toiletries, and various basic needs and passed them out. He sat and talked with them for at least half an hour as well and shared something to eat while he visited with them. We thought that was pretty neat.

Thanks for posting that, I like it

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

Most people ignore the homeless in New York because they're usually on drugs, drunk or simply mentally unstable, and also they smell

Well I don't think that could be true of all people who find themselves homeless there (who knows what anyone's true story is anyway), and obviously we know why they smell. Over the last few years I've seen people with cardboard signs asking for money even in affluent suburbs, in many places where I'd never seen that kind of thing before. These days anyone can end up homeless.

I think people are cynical and jaded everywhere. All you have to do is read some of the online comments about this story. It's hard not to practically weep for humanity. Oh well, I try to hold on to the positive as much as I can. It does get really tough to do that.

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

It's hard not to practically weep for humanity. Oh well, I try to hold on to the positive as much as I can. It does get really tough to do that.

I know how you feel. I'm the exact same way.

Sadly, Pearl is right about why the homeless are always ignored. And that logic strikes me as really backward. We don't like that these people look/act like this, so instead of doing something that might help, y'know, change that, we'll just ignore it only to complain further when their behavior and looks get worse as a result. Okay.

This reminds me of something the last time I was in Las Vegas. We were sitting at a Starbucks on the Strip, where outside our window a small group of I think 4 homeless men were sitting beside a wall. A man pulling a small rolling suit case came up and sat with them. He opened it up and pulled out bagfuls of new packaged socks and other clothing items, toiletries, and various basic needs and passed them out. He sat and talked with them for at least half an hour as well and shared something to eat while he visited with them. We thought that was pretty neat.

That IS a cool story. Thanks for sharing that .

I like this one about the officer and the boots, too. Yes, there are unfortunately a lot of examples of shitty excuses for police officers out there, no question about that, but I'm not going to hate on the entire profession because of those idiots. They have one of the tougher, more stressful jobs in the world and I can't even begin to imagine what it'd be like to have to deal with some of the hellish stuff they deal with day in and day out. They're not perfect, but I do think many of them genuinely care about people, or at least try to, and this is a good example of that in action.

 

[deep]

it's a nice story

go back in a couple of days, and good chance he will be barefoot again , he will have sold those $100 shoes for $10

 

[Pearl]

Well I don't think that could be true of all people who find themselves homeless there (who knows what anyone's true story is anyway), and obviously we know why they smell. Over the last few years I've seen people with cardboard signs asking for money even in affluent suburbs, in many places where I'd never seen that kind of thing before. These days anyone can end up homeless.

Yes, I'm aware of that. I was just saying some New Yorkers tend to see homeless people on the streets as just part of the scenery.

I think people are cynical and jaded everywhere. All you have to do is read some of the online comments about this story. It's hard not to practically weep for humanity. Oh well, I try to hold on to the positive as much as I can. It does get really tough to do that.

 

[Pearl]

Sadly, Pearl is right about why the homeless are always ignored. And that logic strikes me as really backward. We don't like that these people look/act like this, so instead of doing something that might help, y'know, change that, we'll just ignore it only to complain further when their behavior and looks get worse as a result. Okay.

I think one reason why some ignore the homeless is because some can really strung out on whatever or be really out of it. Growing up here, my friends and I have always been told to avoid the homeless and do not help them or feel sorry for them because they might be dangerous. And then you see it happen with your own eyes. So those two combinations can turn people off from doing anything for the homeless.

I remember in school as a kid, one girl said she would rather help out in a soup kitchen than give money to a someone on the streets because they might use it for booze or drugs. I agree with that.

 

[IWasBored]

. Over the last few years I've seen people with cardboard signs asking for money even in affluent suburbs, in many places where I'd never seen that kind of thing before. These days anyone can end up homeless.

Guarantee they're not all actually homeless.

 

[deep]

Most people ignore the homeless in New York because they're usually on drugs, drunk or simply mentally unstable, and also they smell.

they smell?

no, you smell
they stink

my badge​

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

Guarantee they're not all actually homeless.

I realize that. But if they were all scammers they would have been doing that in affluent suburbs long before now. I've given people small amounts of money a few times, I figure they still probably need it more than I do even if they've scammed me. And I'd actually rather get scammed by them than by some wealthy person in fancy clothes. There are all kinds of scammers in this world, some are just in better packaging. All kinds of ways in which to scam people too.

Still doesn't change the fact that anyone could be homeless. I think that's why we keep certain us vs them attitudes, because that's not something that we want to face.

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

I think one reason why some ignore the homeless is because some can really strung out on whatever or be really out of it. Growing up here, my friends and I have always been told to avoid the homeless and do not help them or feel sorry for them because they might be dangerous. And then you see it happen with your own eyes. So those two combinations can turn people off from doing anything for the homeless.

I remember in school as a kid, one girl said she would rather help out in a soup kitchen than give money to a someone on the streets because they might use it for booze or drugs. I agree with that.

Fair point with the first part. Definitely get the "scary situation" thing. I guess in that case then I'd see if I could call somebody who might be better equipped to help the person or something, if for no other reason than at least they'd be kept in a safe place instead of out in public posing a danger to people, if that was a concern of mine. But then again I also know that a lot of places that are supposed to help with things like that struggle with staying open and taking people in and that sort of stuff, too.

And as for the second part, I get that, too, and that makes sense, but at the same time...I dunno. They might, they might not. I still would just feel bad at the idea of simply leaving them there with nothing.

The bottom line is that individual acts of charity are welcome and wonderful, but the homeless also clearly need actual, proper structural help on a big level-a decent place to stay, proper mental/physical healthcare, etc. But even though most people would probably agree with that idea in theory, many of them also aren't willing to do more to help make that a reality. And that's sad.

 

[Pearl]

The bottom line is that individual acts of charity are welcome and wonderful, but the homeless also clearly need actual, proper structural help on a big level-a decent place to stay, proper mental/physical healthcare, etc. But even though most people would probably agree with that idea in theory, many of them also aren't willing to do more to help make that a reality. And that's sad.

I think it takes an enormous amount of patience to deal with homeless people, especially the ones who aren't mentally stable. You would have to be fearless and have an incredible amount of compassion for them. Not everyone has that, and there's some sort of a stigma in taking care of a homeless person, so that's another reason in not too many trying to help them.

 

[anitram]

There is a very high rate of mental illness in the homeless population. I would venture a guess that more than 75% of the homeless suffer from mental illness and a good number of them are also addicts to various substances. If we had better systemic means of dealing with mental illness, if it were not still a very stigmatized thing, the homeless population would go down immediately. Not entirely, but a very large proportion of the people would be off the street had they been receiving the proper care and treatment all along. Of course nothing is that easy in life and it is really hard to control for compliance while allowing for personal choice.

I lived in NYC for a period of time and it was a very fortunate time in my life in the sense that I was making a lot of $, living in a pretty sweet (though tiny place) for $3600/month in midtown which was fully paid for by my employer, along with travel expenses, etc. I must have been one of the very few people who went to NYC on a contract and ended up making a boatload of $. Before I left I'd been volunteering at a soup kitchen every week and so on the one hand I really missed that experience and on the other I did feel that I was very lucky in life so I made it a point to, as often as I was able, give to the homeless men on the walk between my office and work. Most of the time I would buy 2 lunches and give one away. Mostly it was received well, other times they didn't care for the food and I'd have to try the next guy. Sometimes it was a bagel breakfast in the morning. When I was lazy or discouraged by them refusing the food, I'd give cash. Don't want to make myself sound like anything special - it was always small amounts of money, I'd say somewhere in the neighbourhood of $3-5 per. I found that most of them were very talkative. One guy told me that he had looked into my eyes and he knew that I had found Jesus, which was pretty funny given my agnostic views. I was surprised by how many of them were veterans (overwhelmingly Vietnam), and found that to be terribly sad but in retrospect not altogether shocking. Overwhelmingly male, I would say more than 50% were African American but I am not sure if that holds true in NYC generally or if that was the experience I had given where I lived and the path I took to work.

Homelessness is something that I always found incredibly difficult to accept. We who live in the West live in countries far too wealthy to allow for this. But it is a huge systemic problem and when you start talking to these people you really begin to understand that their path to homelessness began very early on in their lives. And for the subset with mental illness, it is a struggle for me personally because I had a relative who was in that position for many years and also as a lawyer who struggles with the law on the matter. I co-authored a paper as I was graduating from law school, with my law school mentor and with a professor of psychiatry, which criticized Ontario's mental health system, which in my view is overly permissive and puts too much emphasis on patient's rights, to their detriment (one of my pride and joy papers as it was published in a really well known journal!). We are talking about extremely mentally ill people in this context, not your average depressed person. Anyway, took a lot of deep thought and soul searching to come to my position. The law is not a vehicle for fixing social problems, but in this case I think that it can be used as a tool to help people who are in truly dire straits.

Now I've rambled too long.

 

[digitize]

Fantastic post, anitram. I don't have much to say in response, but your experiences made me think, which is generally a good thing.

 

[Pearl]

You didn't ramble at all, anitram. I think a lot of what you said made plenty of sense, and I agree the stigma surrounding mental illness needs to be banished from society. I heard a lot of the homeless suffer from schizophrenia and that's a genetic/biological problem, so its not at all their fault.

Reading this thread is making me think twice about passing a homeless person without giving them much thought. Although I'll always be wary because you don't know what they may do to you, I'll see what I can do. Maybe I should start in soup kitchens.

And I agree that it is very sad that some homeless are Vietnam vets. If mental illness developed from the war drove them to the streets, we can expect many Iraq and Afghanistan war veterans doing the same, which should be prevented.

 

[BonosSaint]

It was nice to see an act of kindness. I didn't see it as a kindness from a policeman, but a kindness from a person who happened to be a policeman. (I guess it makes good PR, but that's another discussion)

All these cynical comments here....makes it so much easier to turn away without a twinge. I turn away a lot. I look the other way. Maybe most of the time. I can't always be bothered. But I don't try to find a loophole. The longer I live, the more I see that the evil twins of those who do harm are those who do nothing. We are increasingly indifferent.

I'm not romanticizing the homeless. I think many are scammers. Many are addicts, some criminals, dangerous. And I don't think anyone should put themselves in danger. But I don't know who's scamming. I've seen a lot more people recently afraid of losing their homes because they have lost jobs or have humongous medical bills. These are people who've worked hard all their lives, played by all the rules.

And as Anitram pointed out, so many of the homeless are veterans. People the country broke and didn't want to bother fixing so they just tossed them aside like so much garbage.

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

anitram, that was a perfect post. You pretty much articulated everything I was trying to say earlier much better.

Agreed on the veterans thing, too. That particularly bothers me, because for all the "SUPPORT OUR TROOPS!" rallying cries I heard people chanting all over the place, we sure still don't seem to give much of a shit about them when they actually come home. We're not spitting on them and calling them "baby killers" anymore, but a step up this is obviously not.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

I've seen a lot more people recently afraid of losing their homes because they have lost jobs or have humongous medical bills. These are people who've worked hard all their lives, played by all the rules.

And as Anitram pointed out, so many of the homeless are veterans. People the country broke and didn't want to bother fixing so they just tossed them aside like so much garbage.

Last night I watched Rock Center and they did a story about that very thing-the WORKING homeless (many with college degrees, some with advanced degrees) who are still working. They lost their homes due to illness, divorce, a myriad of circumstances. They were not living in lavish homes that they couldn't afford, they were living in very modest homes and managing to pay their mortgages and bills. One woman got divorced and had three sons, just the cost of food and gas put her into foreclosure. Another couple, the husband developed kidney problems and the medical bills put them out of their home. They had health insurance too. They lived in their car until that was repossessed. They have two young daughters. Luckily they're going to be moving into an apartment before Christmas this year. Most shelters are not equipped for families, and they have to split up because most require that men and women be separated.

The report said that their has been a 60% increase in working homeless families since the recession started. Unprecedented increase. So when you're talking about "the homeless" those people are part of that too. Any of us could be that, given any random circumstance beyond our control.

Couldn't agree with you more about the veterans. I gave some money recently to a man with a veteran's ID. Could he have been scamming me? Of course. But I couldn't turn my back on it, on him and that situation at the moment. If that makes me a sucker or a fool well so be it. Not trying to toot my own horn, and yes if I had the time maybe I should have bought him some food instead. But it doesn't keep me awake at night, the thought that it could have been a scam. The fact that this country has so many veterans in those circumstances, I think that's what should keep me awake at night.

One other thing about that story-the officer said he keeps the receipt for the boots in a pocket of his bulletproof vest, to remind himself. That got to me.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

I also think about the people who will be homeless after Hurricane Sandy, and not just temporarily homeless. People I saw on the news who were just holding onto their homes and couldn't afford homeowners insurance, flood insurance, whatever. How do they start over? Even if you could afford the insurance good luck collecting on it. There are probably still plenty of people still homeless after Katrina. So that's the face of 'the homeless' too.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

The problem is that there are really two types of homelessness... your down on their luck people, victims of the economy, and then there's the mentally unstable and drug addicted homeless.

The guys on the street, at least here in NYC, tend to be from the second group. Those affected by the economy are more likely to seek out help, live in shelters, live in their cars, etc. Obviously there are some homeless on the street who are down on their luck victims of the economy who are too proud to seek out help. But almost every study shows that those are by far a very small minority.

The idea of not giving to panhandlers is to try and force them to seek help... help that is readily available in New York City. There are plenty of great charities that will ensure that the money is spent to help the homeless, not on booze and drugs. Give to your local food bank or soup kitchen or salvation army... not to panhandlers.

 

[anitram]

The problem is that there are really two types of homelessness... your down on their luck people, victims of the economy, and then there's the mentally unstable and drug addicted homeless.

The guys on the street, at least here in NYC, tend to be from the second group. Those affected by the economy are more likely to seek out help, live in shelters, live in their cars, etc. Obviously there are some homeless on the street who are down on their luck victims of the economy who are too proud to seek out help. But almost every study shows that those are by far a very small minority.

The idea of not giving to panhandlers is to try and force them to seek help... help that is readily available in New York City. There are plenty of great charities that will ensure that the money is spent to help the homeless, not on booze and drugs. Give to your local food bank or soup kitchen or salvation army... not to panhandlers.

There is an obvious contradiction in your post because you recognize that the mentally ill group will typically not seek out help to the same extent as those who are not mentally ill and may be temporarily homeless. Systemically homeless people (most of whom are mentally ill) often do not want to go to soup kitchens or food banks or shelters or the salvation army because they cannot cope with (i) order and/or routine; (ii) large numbers of people around them; (iii) small, enclosed spaces; (iv) other disruptive mentally ill people, etc, etc. So while it is a nice thing to do to give to soup kitchens it does not follow that all homeless will be reached. And as far as food banks go, most of the ones I have worked with had a system where you had to complete some kind of paperwork to qualify...pretty much a non-starter with somebody who is a homeless schizophrenic.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

Yes, I think mentally ill people who are homeless present a very unique set of circumstances that can't be easily dealt with or explained. I appreciate your insight anitram. The mental health system has let many of those people down, many of them have tried to get help at some point.

I give food to the local food pantry, I do what I can.

On a much lighter and more superficial note, I was reading about the cop story on another site. And there were a bunch of women commenting on how hot the officer was, hot and so kind and caring and what a combo that is and is he available. So that's a whole different take on it

 

[BonosSaint]

The photo is on the homepage of Weather.com

I really liked what that police officer did. I liked that he knelt by him and looked him in the eyes. I remember the times (way too few) I've stopped to talk to a homeless person and saw the importance of just acknowledging them. I think it is important to look at a person and see a need and provide it if you can, especially when the cost is so little. It doesn't make you a saint. It doesn't make the other person a charity case. It's a moment when you acknowledge your common humanity. That's all.

I really like this thread. It made me go into myself. I talk the talk OK. I don't always walk the walk. Sure you need to make sure you're safe; sure, you need to be practical; sure, you need to make sure you're not exacerbating a situation. But when all's said and done, it's a smile; it's a sandwich; it's some change. Just a moment. Or maybe a series of moments.

 

[bonocomet]

That's one of the things I found special about the guy in Vegas that I mentioned earlier. He didn't just stand there and leave the items for them. He sat down with them and talked and ate and helped choose who wanted which socks etc. (After a while it seemed there were items they told him they weren't going to use so he packed them back up before he was on his way.) But anyway it was the fact that he stuck around, sat with them, that made it different.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

The barefoot homeless man who received new shoes from a kindhearted NYPD cop isn’t actually homeless — and has a sad history of refusing help from loved ones and the government.
For the past year, Jeffrey Hillman has had an apartment in the Bronx paid for through a combination of federal Section 8 rent vouchers and Social Security disability and veterans benefits, officials said Monday.


Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...ory-rejecting-article-1.1212779#ixzz2EDd5eQBD

...and....

A homeless drifter was arrested and charged this morning for allegedly tossing a Queens dad onto a Times Square subway track, where he was fatally crushed by a Q train, law-enforcement sources told The Post.
Naeem Davis, 30, confessed yesterday while being grilled in the grisly death of Ki Suk Han, 58, who was struck in front of horrified onlookers Monday after trying desperately to scramble back to the platform.
Davis told police that he “stayed and watched” as the train hit Han, a law-enforcement source said.
He was charged with murder in the second degree and depraved indifference.
“He said he heard his torso snap and he knew he was dead.”
Davis showed no remorse for causing Han’s death, another source said.

I understand that the mentally insane, for the most part, do not want the help that soup kitchens and shelters provide. But there are still professionals who can help them better than then average Joe schmo on the street.

The problem stems back from budget cuts in the 80s and early 90s that shut down many of New York State's psychiatric hospitals. I grew up in a town on long island that formed around one of these hospitals. In the early 90s the hospital was completely shut down by the state. Thousands of mentally unstable people lived in the facility, and other facilities. The most dangerous were moved to few remaining hospitals that were still open... Many were sent to halfway houses, and others still simply went free, many of them ending up on the streets.

As much as it seems un-PC, or cruel to not actively help the homeless on a personal, one on one basis... You should absolutely not do so, for your own personal safety. I mean... There's a reason why in stand in a defensive stance on the subway platform. Its sad, but its reality.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

Whatever the man's story is and in spite of what he did with the shoes, I still think the officer did the right thing. For me it is about what Bono's Saint said, that moment of humanity and walking the walk. And he is a police officer packing a gun, so his safety is better protected. My hunch is that he'd do the same thing again, in spite of it all. For me it's not about PC, it's more about trying to ward off cynicism and trying to hold onto sense of humanity. Not that I fault people for being cynical, because I'm plenty cynical myself. Just trying to hold onto the non cynical optimism that I have left.

As far as the man who was killed, I was going to start a thread about that. About the photo being taken and published and the photographer's and bystanders' actions. Where were all the other people to try to help that man? Maybe they were too far away too, the photographer claims he was but they weren't. I don't go into the city all that often but when I do I don't even think about that when taking the subway. I do think about my safety, and as a female I do what I can to protect it. I would do my best to stay away from and not engage a person like that in any sort of conversation. Not blaming the victim for doing that, if he even did. That whole story is just tragic. We've had plenty of people fall from the platforms onto the tracks, but I can't remember hearing of anyone being pushed.

 

[anitram]

A paranoid schizophrenic man pushed a 23-year-old woman to her death in Toronto about 15 years ago. He had been kicked out of his boarding/halfway house that morning. Just heartbreaking - I read recently that her Mom still goes to visit her grave twice a day every day.

Headache brought up a good point about the cuts to mental institutions - there is a high correlation between the decrease in the number of psychiatric beds and (i) homelessness and (ii) violent crime committed by mentally ill people per capita.