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Old 07-11-2015, 09:15 AM   #101
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Neoliberalism calls for privatization, limiting government, deregulation, and free trade. By definition government aid would be off the table, and it's obvious that's not part of Bono's vision.
Hi, thanks. But can we leave Bono out of it for a moment. My question was with regards to your comments specifically about Jeffrey Sachs, whom you said was more nuanced than neoliberal.

Your definition is quite standard. Nothing wrong with it on the surface. But we have to acknowledge that human beings – and especially politicians – do not fit these moulds so rigidly. We are contradictory, opportunists, not fixed. Thatcher was as Tory (and neoliberal) as Cameron. No doubt about it. Who cares for strict definitions?! Thatcher said there is no such thing as society. Cameron, seeing an opportunity, argued for a big society. Differing rhetoric to encourage the same kinds of aims.

It is my understanding that Jeffrey Sachs has called for privatization, deregulation and free trade. As for small government, it takes a large government to organise society in a way that it can appear that there is a small government. What usually happens is that the government may appear small when it is actually working in the interests of certain groups. It took a very strong Thatcher government ("The Iron Lady" !!) to create a relatively "small government". Neoliberalism in so-called third world countries was earlier defined by structural adjustment policies. It takes a large government to make such adjustments. A large government in the donor country (the country offering aid on the condition of neoliberal structural adjustment policies in the recipient country) and a large government in the country where the government is required to step aside to allow for privatisation and free trade. Privatisation and free trade do not occur in a political vacuum. Hence, there are many myths and contradictions. Neoliberalism is more flexible, contradictory and elusive than "strict definitions".

If you are judging neoliberalism according to aid, then you are actually saying that not only is Jeffrey Sachs not a neoliberal, but that there has been nothing neoliberal about British and US governments in the past three decades. We know this is not true.

You're right – the perfect neoliberal daydream may exclude all aid. But neoliberalism isn't a science and politics and international development do not occur in a test tube.

So I still don't understand which "nuances" make Jeffrey Sachs NOT a neoliberal.
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Old 07-11-2015, 09:24 AM   #102
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Hello wideawake2015,
Thanks for your comments etc. I will write a reply later over the weekend. In a rush for time right now but meanwhile I didn't want to appear like I totally ignored your comments.
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Old 07-11-2015, 11:38 AM   #103
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Originally Posted by wideawake2015 View Post
Hi, thanks. But can we leave Bono out of it for a moment. My question was with regards to your comments specifically about Jeffrey Sachs, whom you said was more nuanced than neoliberal.



Your definition is quite standard. Nothing wrong with it on the surface. But we have to acknowledge that human beings – and especially politicians – do not fit these moulds so rigidly. We are contradictory, opportunists, not fixed. Thatcher was as Tory (and neoliberal) as Cameron. No doubt about it. Who cares for strict definitions?! Thatcher said there is no such thing as society. Cameron, seeing an opportunity, argued for a big society. Differing rhetoric to encourage the same kinds of aims.



It is my understanding that Jeffrey Sachs has called for privatization, deregulation and free trade. As for small government, it takes a large government to organise society in a way that it can appear that there is a small government. What usually happens is that the government may appear small when it is actually working in the interests of certain groups. It took a very strong Thatcher government ("The Iron Lady" !!) to create a relatively "small government". Neoliberalism in so-called third world countries was earlier defined by structural adjustment policies. It takes a large government to make such adjustments. A large government in the donor country (the country offering aid on the condition of neoliberal structural adjustment policies in the recipient country) and a large government in the country where the government is required to step aside to allow for privatisation and free trade. Privatisation and free trade do not occur in a political vacuum. Hence, there are many myths and contradictions. Neoliberalism is more flexible, contradictory and elusive than "strict definitions".



If you are judging neoliberalism according to aid, then you are actually saying that not only is Jeffrey Sachs not a neoliberal, but that there has been nothing neoliberal about British and US governments in the past three decades. We know this is not true.



You're right – the perfect neoliberal daydream may exclude all aid. But neoliberalism isn't a science and politics and international development do not occur in a test tube.



So I still don't understand which "nuances" make Jeffrey Sachs NOT a neoliberal.

:facepalm: holy hell!!!

Forget about Bono for a second?! This thread(that you started) is about Bono! Your whole point was that Bono's knowledge has to be questioned because of who he's hanging out with. My whole point, which you keep getting distracted on tangents and missing, is that Bono's desire for a solution is far from a neoliberal's pipedream.


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Old 07-11-2015, 07:03 PM   #104
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Old 07-12-2015, 05:32 PM   #105
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Thanks for your comments etc. I will write a reply later over the weekend. In a rush for time right now but meanwhile I didn't want to appear like I totally ignored your comments.
Oh hey... no worries, take your time.
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Old 07-13-2015, 10:47 AM   #106
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A good article, I think, that tells the history of how this all happened.
I'm sending the link to Neil Young. He is in so much need for a cup of coffee.
I guess he's also hungry trying to find food that has not been modified in the last six thousand years.


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