A_Wanderer said:
If I stick my dick into another man or woman while in a commited relationship and my partner isn't alright with it then that is dishonest and it is cheating, the act itself is what is wrong, the lying about it is wrong. The thought itself, of lusting after another person is not, thats our sex drive at work and to deny that is to deny a significant part of what we are.
Would you tell your partner that you're lusting after another person though? How would they feel about that?
We just see differently on this. You're saying you're accountable for your actions, but not for what's in your heart. You don't see there being any spiritual side to life or a God, so there's no one to be held accountable to for the spiritual condition of our hearts. I do see signs of a God, and a personal one at that, and the Bible, which I believe to be God's word, says we are held accountable for our hearts and actions. (Luckily, we can be forgiven for when we slip up.) I see a spiritual side to everything. So, right there, we're comparing apples to oranges. I can totally see where you're coming from though. We're just seeing things differently.
That said, at what point is it best to deny our sex drive? When we have sex with another person outside our marriage? When we kiss that person? When we picture ourselves doing these things with this person? At that point aren't we turning our feelings from our wife to another woman? At the root of it all is the condition of our hearts. And what causes us to cross the line from inward lust to outward action? It's only a growing amount of lust or greed. It's easy to fall down another level to where the condition of our hearts is acted out.
Yes, to cheat on my wife physically is worse for our relationship than me looking at porn. It's higher on the scale of offenses to our marriage, but in my heart is the same basic problem. If I strive to deny that problem, because the standard is a loving, devoted marriage to each other, why is it considered oppressive to strive to not look at porn? I'm instead focusing my feelings toward my wife. What's oppressive about that? On top of it all, if I told my wife I was looking at porn or lusting after a girl at work, she'd be hurt. If I just keep it a secret to not hurt her, then I'm not compeltely open and honest to her. I'm holding something back and that can get in the way.
A_Wanderer said:
Not if your watching it together.
Again, we have different points of view and standards. I see marriage as a relationship between two people, not three. Even if my wife and I watched porn together, there's a third (or more) people involved. Now my heart's devotion is to more people, rather than only my wife. It's also, like nathan1977 said, reducing people to objects of my pleasure. It isolates everyone instead of uniting two people. But I understand we have different perspectives here.
A_Wanderer said:
The issue that I have is that peoples boundaries do vary depending on the individual, an aspiration for group sex isn't neccessarily a bad thing and doing it would definitely be doing more in life than only ever having two parties involved. It may not be opressive if you fit within the boundaries of what your beliefs say are acceptable; but for any rule there will be those who want more. We shouldn't be expected to play by the same rules, and people should be allowed to play their own game. If you feel good with mandated boundaries by God thats fine, but unless it's illegal people should be able to push the limits.
From your perspective, people's boundaries do vary depending on the person, but who sets the boundaries? In football, is it the players, or is it the league they play in and/or the officials?
As far as group sex equating to getting more out of life than a sex between two people - I couldn't disagree with you more. Is it more important to get laid, or to be a part of a committed relationship? I don't see sex as a sport, I see it as something that supports and enhances and deepens a relationship.
And you said unless it's illegal, people should be able to push the limits. Again, we have our different perspectives. I see spiritual laws where you don't. I'm not saying I'm a better person than you, but that's where we differ.