HyperU2
War Child
What a nutter. How many people did he kill while you were together? I've been in plenty of crises, I do understand it. The shakes come after the action, if you're properly trained.
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What a nutter. How many people did he kill while you were together? I've been in plenty of crises, I do understand it. The shakes come after the action, if you're properly trained.
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
HyperU2
War Child
Wow
Quite contributing, I can barely keep up.
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
I think the whole point is, the training is not the issue. The majority of gun owners are not trained. When you start allowing college kids or anyone not on duty to be carrying guns in public spaces the likelyhood of disaster is elevated. A bar fight escalates, someone snapping in traffic, or someone reacting in a highly tense mass chaos type of scenario and them not really knowing the entire situation; all of these could lead to disaster.
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
Well that highly intelligent response didn't really deserve much more...
Of course I could have gone your route and told you to fuck off or suck on it or any other one of your colorful responses in the past.
HyperU2
War Child
That's not where the majority of shootings come from though. Most people are willing to attack the minor issues without solving a thing. There is a huge culture change that needs to be addressed and we could have both guns and a low homicide rate.
yolland
Forum Moderator
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Please, we can argue the point without resorting to this kind of crassness.
What would be some aspects of this 'culture change' you have in mind?
HyperU2
War Child
I'm talking about the genocide that goes on in the major cities being ignored while less than 100 people a year die in spree killings and them sucking up the majority of the news. Philadelphia had as many murders in 2008 as the whole state of Indiana. Out of control.
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
I could care less if it's where the majority or minority is right now, it's enough of a reason to not allow guns to be carried in public places by regular citizens. You keep approaching me as if I'm a full out gun ban type of person, I'm not, but I am very much for controlling who, where, and what type of guns are flooding this culture. I agree a huge culture change needs to be addressed, and part of it starts with there are too many folks who just think guns are cool toys that need to with them at all times.
HyperU2
War Child
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
But my point is that there were a lot of conservatives that used that shooting as a reason to allow guns to be carried on college campuses. Some nutjobs in my home state are trying to get this to the floor as we speak.
HyperU2
War Child
There is no reason not to allow them to be carried there. Criminals don't care. Chances are slim to none that you'd ever need one though, the media feeds that paranoia too. There is still no reason to deny people the right.
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
There is a reason.
You are right criminals don't care, but crimes of passion and weakness happen. Even the most law abiding citizens snap or react in moments of impaired judgement. The amount of alcohol consumed on campuses is reason alone. I can't believe that you can't see that.
HyperU2
War Child
You have to be 21 to carry anyway, that's generally senior year? I doubt most college kids even want to carry. A kid at the college in the town where I work just stabbed his GF to death, crimes of passion aren't going to stop no matter what the weapon. If a stranger is going to shoot you on campus, he doesn't care what the rules are. If someone you know decides to kill you, they don't are about the method. But, your chances of either are slim as hell.
Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
HyperU2
War Child
It doesn't make it any worse.
VintagePunk
Blue Crack Distributor
In all fairness, he was very responsible. All his guns were locked in a gun cabinet, and the ammunition was stored and locked separately. He was not delusional enough to believe that he could positively affect a violent situation, so that was never an issue. Still, I was never comfortable having them in my home.
That's fine if you're a police officer or you have military gun training that has been continued regularly, but anything less than that is insufficient to handle a crisis situation.
Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
HyperU2
War Child
Prove it. Guns make it get reported more frequently.
HyperU2
War Child
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
This is such a weak argument you keep returning to...
The point is when you allow everyone to just start carrying like in days of the wild west, you will eventually have moments like the wild west. If you made pot legal, the likelihood is pot useage will go up. If you made prostitution legal it probably will get used more. If you allow anyone to freely carry a gun anywhere they probably will get used more. And college campuses in paticular would be a very volatile environment for free range guns.
HyperU2
War Child
There are plenty of places where they can be carried freely and they don't get used more often. Simple as that.
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
Well I think it's a fairly common held belief that if it's made easier the likelihood of it occurring is probably increased.
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
Like where?
HyperU2
War Child
Concealed Weapon Summary Report - Division of Licensing, DOACS
Half a million licenses to carry in Florida, and only 166 revoked due to the use of a firearm in committing a crime. (in all fairness I should use the 1.4 million number but w/e)
Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
o he risk of homicide in the home is three times greater in households with guns.2
* The risk of suicide is five times greater in households with guns.3
* From 1990-1998, over two-thirds of spouse and ex-spouse murder victims were killed with guns.4
* Guns are the weapon of choice for troubled individuals who commit suicide. In 2004, firearms were used in 16,750 suicide deaths in America. Among young people under 20, more than two young lives were lost daily to firearm-related suicides.5
* Due to firearm suicides, there are more than twice as many suicide victims in states with high household firearm ownership.6
* A gun in the home also increases the likelihood of an unintentional shooting, particularly among children. Unintentional shootings commonly occur when children find an adult's loaded handgun in a drawer or closet, and while playing with it shoot themselves, a sibling or a friend. The unintentional firearm-related death rate for children 0-14 years old is NINE times higher in the U.S. than in the 25 other countries combined.
it's from the Brady Campaign website. yes, it clearly does have an agenda. but please go ahead and counter each and every one of these statistics.
HyperU2
War Child
Suicide counts now? The risk of suicide by gun increases when a gun is present. No shit. We've actually got a somewhat low suicide rate though. Even with guns.
Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
they call that moving the goalposts where i come from.
i'm not challenging the constitutional right to own guns. i really do think it's there.
i just want you to accept the fact that lots of innocent people die in the streets for that "freedom" and it's a problem the rest of the developed world doesn't have.
HyperU2
War Child
Innocent people die from a number of things. The reason I brought up cities is because of how they skew our statistics as a nation. When one city (Philadelphia) has the same about of homicides as one state (Indiana) despite only having one sixth of the population, you can't say that the country is being shot to pieces. Montana probably has 4 guns for every citizen and they only had 10 homicides by gun in 2007.
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
We have the same in TX but you still can't carry everywhere and that is my point, so the whole "carried freely" part of your post was a little misleading. Bars, campuses, arenas, etc still can't carry.
But our road rage deaths go up every year.
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