Merchants of Despair

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I've neither heard or read this book.

But I see nothing wrong with humans wanting to lower birth rates for the sake of the planet. There is not enough resources to take care of, say, 9 or 12 billion people. So I believe there is nothing wrong with educating people to have fewer children. And besides, there is no need for five or six kids. People are living longer and healthier; there is no need to double a population that is going to be around for a long time.
 
I have not read it though now I want to.

Pearl, many people are not having kids. The reproduction rate in first world countries is very low. The fastest growing countries are third world countries where it is still common for families to have 7+ children. It's those countries that are contributing to an increasing population, not first world countries.
 
There have been groups in the US encouraging couples to have one child (or fewer) since the 60s, but yeah, it's third world countries where the population is really exploding. We will eventually outstrip the planet's food supply at the rate we are going.
 
"Anti-humanism" referring to an overwhelming majority of scientific researchers supporting climate change findings produced using the scientific method.

Because caring about the fucking thing WE LIVE ON is "anti-humanist". Oh, for fuck's sake, people, is this how ridiculous conservatives really are on the environment?

Now we just need INDY to chirp in about how radical environmentalists are roving the woodlands ready to strike at Everyday Christian Americans who dislike tax increases. (after departing from their liberal indoctrination factory university, of course)

Or someone post that stupid UK commercial of people exploding made by some yoo-hoos and bemoan how our way of wonderful capitalist excess is under attack and that we all my be threatened by radical anti-humanist hoards wearing nothing but hemp underclothes.

Think of climate change research as preventative home maintenance. Is that down to earth enough for you Everyday Christian White Folks Under Siege?
 
Real-Judges.jpg


The Everyday Christian White Folks Under Siege judges give Canadians1131 a perfect score in the Unhinged Late-Nite Rant.
 
ladyfreckles said:
I have not read it though now I want to.

The reproduction rate in first world countries is very low. The fastest growing countries are third world countries where it is still common for families to have 7+ children. It's those countries that are contributing to an increasing population, not first world countries.
Click to expand...

A cruel twist of demographics given it's the first world that truly needs third world fertility rates to fund our ponzi-schemed welfare states, pay off our accumulated debt and support our 15-20 year retirements.
 
ladyfreckles said:
I have not read it though now I want to.

Pearl, many people are not having kids. The reproduction rate in first world countries is very low. The fastest growing countries are third world countries where it is still common for families to have 7+ children. It's those countries that are contributing to an increasing population, not first world countries.
Click to expand...

ladyfreckles, I am quite aware of this. Perhaps I should've been more clearer in my post that I wasn't referring to the first world. But then again, I didn't think anyone would suspect I was talking about industrialized nations.
 
Danny Boy said:
There have been groups in the US encouraging couples to have one child (or fewer) since the 60s, but yeah, it's third world countries where the population is really exploding. We will eventually outstrip the planet's food supply at the rate we are going.
Click to expand...

We have more than enough food. The politics of the food we have remains questionable, though.

Canadiens1131 said:
"Anti-humanism" referring to an overwhelming majority of scientific researchers supporting climate change findings produced using the scientific method.
Click to expand...

Hold up here. I haven't read the book yet, so I can't speak for the accuracy in that section of it, but I will say that there seems to be a fundamental flaw in the way people approach climate change. The past few decades have accounted for about 65% of the increase in temperature since 1870. However, at the same time, while I do believe we have sped things up, I also believe that this sort of change is inevitable and our focus should be on adapting to this climate change as well as slowing it down.

I'll have to go to the library and flip through this book sometime today or tomorrow to actually read what it says, but I can see what the author might have meant by applying anti-humanist here (if he did). The world has been warmer than it is now in the past. It has been significantly colder. The planet is ever changing. Regardless of us being responsible for messing up the natural order of things, our planet has an extraordinary ability to adapt.

Yet we have people insisting that we have killed a planet that has existed for much longer than our species has and has handled much worse than this average increase in temperature. The planet will adapt. Will we? I'm not so sure. Not if we continue plugging our hands into our ears and pretending that climate change is something we have any control over. We can slow it down, sure, but unless we have a backup plan to deal with a hotter world, we're in for a rude awakening.


Because caring about the fucking thing WE LIVE ON is "anti-humanist". Oh, for fuck's sake, people, is this how ridiculous conservatives really are on the environment?
Click to expand...

Personally I try my best to protect the planet and keep things sustainable/natural, but at the same time, I think we also try to play god and protect creatures that are going extinct on their own. The truth is that people take humanism to extremes and people take environmentalism to extremes. I don't think the book is opposed to environmentalism (based on the reviews I read), I think the book is opposed to an extremist view of it.

7 Billion People: Everybody Relax! - YouTube
 
I have not read the book yet, but reading some reviews I found
this quote from the book:


There was a time when humanity looked in the mirror and saw something precious, worth protecting and fighting for, indeed, worth liberating. Starting with the Biblical idea of the human spirit as the image of God, taken forward by Renaissance humanists defending the dignity of man, our greatest thinkers developed a concept of civilization dedicated to human betterment and “unalienable rights” among which are “Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness,” proudly asserting that “to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men.”

But now, we are beset on all sides by propaganda promoting a radically different viewpoint. According to this idea, humans are a cancer upon the Earth, a horde of vermin whose unconstrained aspirations and appetites are endangering the natural order. This is the core idea of antihumanism.


~Robert Zubrin
 
the iron horse said:
But now, we are beset on all sides by propaganda promoting a radically different viewpoint. According to this idea, humans are a cancer upon the Earth, a horde of vermin whose unconstrained aspirations and appetites are endangering the natural order. This is the core idea of antihumanism.
Click to expand...
sounds a bit like a 8 year old who was not allowed a third serving of chips, calling his parents tyrannical monsters
 
cobl04 said:
It's a strange viewpoint. Let's all kill ourselves at 5pm Thursday, let's exterminate our entire species, to save the earth!
Click to expand...


i don't think anyone who believes that we should drive less in more fuel efficient cars, wash our clothes in cold water, and eat less meat is somehow engaging in a suicide pact because they hate human beings.

but i suppose one has to think that way if one is a child and doesn't want to be told that, well, yes, there probably are some lifestyle modifications that one could make that would reduce the harm we do to the environment.

it's all or nothing, for some. it's like, "i think we should grow our own vegetables," and the response is, "oh YEAH? i bet you want me to abort all my babies as well! FASCIST!"

so let them read their books and raise their blood pressure and feel under siege and oppressed by electrical cars and carbon offsets and public transportation. the rest of us will continue to swelter through this summer on a planet that's probably already past the tipping point.

besides, humans will naturally lower their own birthrates themselves. the more educated a woman becomes, the fewer children she has. and this can happen in a generation. just look at Mexico.
 
the iron horse said:
our greatest thinkers developed a concept of civilization dedicated to human betterment and “unalienable rights” among which are “Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness,” proudly asserting that “to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men.”
Click to expand...

Typically American view. That the "greatest thinkers" are the founding fathers who put together a perfect constitutional document. In fact, there are different views on constitutional documents with different emphasis than the US constitution - not necessarily better or worse, just different.

I won't bore you, but there is lots written about precisely the focus on "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" as the underlying theme of the document versus the type of language that you see in other constitutions.
 
the iron horse said:
But now, we are beset on all sides by propaganda promoting a radically different viewpoint. According to this idea, humans are a cancer upon the Earth, a horde of vermin whose unconstrained aspirations and appetites are endangering the natural order. This is the core idea of antihumanism.

~Robert Zubrin
Click to expand...

What a lazy argument(he has a lot in his book along with bad fact checking).

Why is it that people feel the need to argue a minority extreme view with another extreme view? Is this all you're capable of? Are there people who see humans as a cancer to the earth? Sure, maybe a few. But then why argue it with an equally extreme view that arrogantly denies that humanity can have an effect on the planet?
 
Irvine511 said:
i don't think anyone who believes that we should drive less in more fuel efficient cars, wash our clothes in cold water, and eat less meat is somehow engaging in a suicide pact because they hate human beings.

but i suppose one has to think that way if one is a child and doesn't want to be told that, well, yes, there probably are some lifestyle modifications that one could make that would reduce the harm we do to the environment.

it's all or nothing, for some. it's like, "i think we should grow our own vegetables," and the response is, "oh YEAH? i bet you want me to abort all my babies as well! FASCIST!"

so let them read their books and raise their blood pressure and feel under siege and oppressed by electrical cars and carbon offsets and public transportation. the rest of us will continue to swelter through this summer on a planet that's probably already past the tipping point.

besides, humans will naturally lower their own birthrates themselves. the more educated a woman becomes, the fewer children she has. and this can happen in a generation. just look at Mexico.
Click to expand...

So what I'm getting from all of this is you're happy there are fewer Mexicans in the world?
 
I think it makes good sense to care for the environment, but mainly for our own benefit. The earth will be fine regardless of what happens. Species being wiped out, climate changing--that's always been a part of this planet's history with and without human help, and the Earth will solider on. The question is whether we will be a part of that soldiering on, whether the kind of world we are destroying and polluting is the kind we want-or will be able-- to live in (and that we want for our children). If we don't change our ways we will certainly destroy the world as we know it, but then the world hasn't always been as we've known it.
 
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