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Old 07-17-2012, 05:27 PM   #41
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Right - it's similar to other places without a written constitution but with what are considered to be guiding constitutional documents.
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Old 07-17-2012, 06:12 PM   #42
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The Founders, and traditionally the majority of Americans, have understood that for government to provide a "right" to one group they must indenture another. Furthermore, that "a government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have."


"traditionally the majority"?

why do you feel as if the present administration is this massive, seismic upheaval from all of American history? on what basis to you purport to speak for the swath of Americans who've ever lived? certainly not on a historical basis.

my late FDR-loving grandparents who lived off social security, medicare, good pensions, public schools, and all the other benefits that flowed from much, much higher tax rates than we have today and resulted in the creation of the modern middle class would all beg to differ with you.
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Old 07-17-2012, 09:07 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by INDY500
The Founders, and traditionally the majority of Americans, have understood that for government to provide a "right" to one group they must indenture another.
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my late FDR-loving grandparents who lived off social security, medicare, good pensions, public schools, and all the other benefits that flowed from much, much higher tax rates than we have today and resulted in the creation of the modern middle class would all beg to differ with you.
Millennial Generation, meet Irvine's FDR-loving grandparents and enjoy paying for their "social security, medicare, good pensions, public schools, and all the other benefits" for the rest of your lives. My Social Security and Medicare too for that matter.
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Old 07-17-2012, 09:28 PM   #44
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Millennial Generation, meet Irvine's FDR-loving grandparents and enjoying paying for their "social security, medicare, good pensions, public schools, and all the other benefits" for the rest of your lives. My Social Security and Medicare too for that matter.

you'll be opting out of those, right? you wouldn't want a hand out that's only going to encourage unwed mothers to suckle their babies at the teet of big government?

we can pay for it with more revenue. look at tax rates in the 1950s, 1960s, 1970s, 1980s, and 1990s.

my grandparents are all dead, btw. and they were the products of a mid-century middle class that the right wing has been dismantling since 1980.
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Old 07-17-2012, 10:45 PM   #45
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you'll be opting out of those, right? you wouldn't want a hand out that's only going to encourage unwed mothers to suckle their babies at the teet of big government?
Ha, yeah, this. Please, conservatives, don't take that evil government money or aid. That would certainly help free things up for the rest of us!

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Millennial Generation, meet Irvine's FDR-loving grandparents and enjoy paying for their "social security, medicare, good pensions, public schools, and all the other benefits" for the rest of your lives. My Social Security and Medicare too for that matter.
I am part of the millenial generation. Do I want to deny my mom her social security she worked hard for all these years? Should my parents have refused Medicare when my dad was sick? Should my grandparents (all of whom, like Irvine's, have long since passed) have been denied that stuff? No. And I went to public school as well. I'm all for continuing to support making sure future generations get access to the sort of education I got.

I'm NOT in the mood to have my generation pay off wars we didn't ask for, though. I'm not in the mood to have my money continue to go to corporate influences that will only screw with it. I'm not in the mood to pay off the financial crap that was tied to Wall Street. Funny how nobody seems to be talking about us having to pay for that crap, though.

There's a whole mess of debt my generation's going to have to pay for that we didn't ask for, absolutely. But programs that help people, programs my family and others I know have benefited from, don't exactly come up on my list of things I'd hate to pay for.
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Old 07-22-2012, 11:24 PM   #46
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It's also no surprise that you (falsely) assume I hate Christians.

No, I do not assume that about you
nor was that the intended message of my reply.

What you posted just brought particular quote from Jesus to my mind.
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