purpleoscar
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
Murder is worse than child rape albeit both are horrible. I like the idea of chemical castration. 
Mental Health Group Wants Pedophilia De-Stigmatized
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PhilsFan
Blue Crack Addict
Capital punishment is the stupidest debate in America, slightly ahead of gay marriage. Abolish the shit out of it.
VintagePunk
Blue Crack Distributor
My education touched on pedophilia, from a mental health perspective. One of the most intense, moving things I've ever experienced was hearing a lengthy lecture from a convicted pedophile. I remember listening to it in a detached, clinical manner, and then immediate after, bawling my eyes out.
I certainly don't have all the answers. A few things I did learn though:
-vast numbers of pedophiles were victimized themselves as children
-no one wants to be a pedophile, it's very shameful, and they know it - self-loathing, and all that
-they prey upon kids who they sense are "damaged" in some way, and as such, unlikely to tell (i.e. raise your kids to have healthy self-esteem and not be afraid to tell you anything)
-during the lectures, they discussed treatments. It was so long ago, I can't remember if this came from the guest speaker or the prof, but they did talk about "amnesty" programs for pedophiles, where they can come forward and ask for help without the risk of criminal charges, and about the success that some of these programs have had
-even still, it's true that there is a very high recidivism rate. I don't know the figures offhand for various treatments though. Some (the most intensive) might be better than others
-the guest speaker had been through psychological treatment. He discussed his avoidance of children, and his awareness of danger signs that he might slip back into his old habits, and how it required constant vigilance and willpower not to
-I'm wracking my brain right now to remember if chemical castration was discussed, but I honestly can't remember. I do know though that by the tone of his talk, if that was an alternative, he gladly would have done it
Now that doesn't really explain groups like NAMBLA. Don't think for a second that there are legitimate groups from the mental health community calling for the normalization of this behaviour. There aren't. It will never be normalized. And while one of the most disgusting, repugnant acts I can think of, what I also think of is: what if little Johnny, 6 years old, who is now being molested, for whatever reason, suffers arrested sexuality and becomes a molester himself in 20 years? I guess part of me is always reminded of the child who was driven to that.
I certainly don't have all the answers. A few things I did learn though:
-vast numbers of pedophiles were victimized themselves as children
-no one wants to be a pedophile, it's very shameful, and they know it - self-loathing, and all that
-they prey upon kids who they sense are "damaged" in some way, and as such, unlikely to tell (i.e. raise your kids to have healthy self-esteem and not be afraid to tell you anything)
-during the lectures, they discussed treatments. It was so long ago, I can't remember if this came from the guest speaker or the prof, but they did talk about "amnesty" programs for pedophiles, where they can come forward and ask for help without the risk of criminal charges, and about the success that some of these programs have had
-even still, it's true that there is a very high recidivism rate. I don't know the figures offhand for various treatments though. Some (the most intensive) might be better than others
-the guest speaker had been through psychological treatment. He discussed his avoidance of children, and his awareness of danger signs that he might slip back into his old habits, and how it required constant vigilance and willpower not to
-I'm wracking my brain right now to remember if chemical castration was discussed, but I honestly can't remember. I do know though that by the tone of his talk, if that was an alternative, he gladly would have done it
Now that doesn't really explain groups like NAMBLA. Don't think for a second that there are legitimate groups from the mental health community calling for the normalization of this behaviour. There aren't. It will never be normalized. And while one of the most disgusting, repugnant acts I can think of, what I also think of is: what if little Johnny, 6 years old, who is now being molested, for whatever reason, suffers arrested sexuality and becomes a molester himself in 20 years? I guess part of me is always reminded of the child who was driven to that.
bono_212
Blue Crack Distributor
You say they're all ashamed of it, but I just can't agree. I've shared this story before, but I will forever be scarred/taumatized by one of my fellow employees from a couple years back. He was a child molester and he didn't regret what he had done one bit. He believed the boys he did what he did had "wanted it" and he was proud of himself. He was openly over friendly with children who visited the store and the worst thing of all, and I don't know how this even can happen: once he was off probation he was no longer on the sex offender registry. I checked, multiple times because I was so cold inside knowing he wasn't at least listed. He left after he got off probation and I haven't seen him since.
What was the worst part, of course, was that he was a really nice guy and I got along with him splendidly. It made me so confused and torn up inside, because I wanted to hate him, and I mostly did, but he's still a person, and he treated me kindly and with respect. Though that made I and another employee nervous just the same as he was friendliest with the two of us, and we both happen to look far younger than our age. That's the thing, I could never escape what he did in any conversation, it was always on my mind.
Do I believe a person like that should be put to death? No. But, he doesn't regret a damn thing, and therefore is clearly not rehabilitated and should still be in prison. Most definitely I believe that.
What was the worst part, of course, was that he was a really nice guy and I got along with him splendidly. It made me so confused and torn up inside, because I wanted to hate him, and I mostly did, but he's still a person, and he treated me kindly and with respect. Though that made I and another employee nervous just the same as he was friendliest with the two of us, and we both happen to look far younger than our age. That's the thing, I could never escape what he did in any conversation, it was always on my mind.
Do I believe a person like that should be put to death? No. But, he doesn't regret a damn thing, and therefore is clearly not rehabilitated and should still be in prison. Most definitely I believe that.
VintagePunk
Blue Crack Distributor
Like i said, I certainly don't have all the answers, and probably the psychopathologies behind the abusers are just as varied as the abusers themselves...
I will just say though that outward appearance of acceptance of his crime doesn't necessarily mean that he's inwardly at peace with it. People can come up with all kinds of ways to outwardly rationalize their behaviour while still inside knowing it's wrong and repulsive. Sounds like there's a lot of denial going on in that case, and as such, he's probably still very dangerous.
As for removal from the sex offender registry? That's a fucked-up system, and I certainly hope that's not normal.
cobl04
45:33
I side with jen and say why is this even being debated? Paedophilia and de-stigmatised being in the same sentence makes me sick. Minor-attracted. give me a fucking break
the iron horse
Rock n' Roll Doggie
You should read some on Amercan history in the 19th century.
Murder was not the norm then.
bono_212
Blue Crack Distributor
Because we were talking about this, I looked into it again and he's back on there, so that's good. He's smiling like a jackass in the picture, so that kind of irritated me, but I'm glad to see he's on there.
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
the iron horse said:
What a ridiculous nonsensical tangent?!
Jive Turkey
ONE love, blood, life
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Sometimes I'm not sure if Iron Horse believes the shit he posts or if he's just an elaborate troll
Cin
Blue Crack Addict
I think this is very interesting. I've always believe molesters are just the worst of the worst and should be castrated, locked up, off the streets. But. What if a person had inklings, tiny inklings that were disturbing and needed to be nipped in the bud. That person was far too ashamed to ever speak to a counseller or anyone for fear of being stigmatized and shunned by society. They hold it inside, feeling dirty and evil, not wanting to act out but feeling helpless. The spiral of self hatred continues until they become their own worst nightmare and offend.....
I don't know the solution, it really is just a horrible crime. I'm not sure if people can be rehabilitated at any stage. Hate to think these people could be stopped at an early stage but are left to change and become monsters.
All the black slaves and the Native Americans who were slaughtered must have imagined it.
Are you not a teacher?? Astounding, honestly.
neil c
The Fly
i remember seeing a film where kevin bacon starred as a pedophile who became reformed
corianderstem
Blue Crack Distributor
The Woodcutter. Not easy to watch, but it was a good film.
Jive Turkey
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Is this a clue as to how he became reformed?
MrsSpringsteen
Blue Crack Addict
Yes indeed, and I think we definitely shouldn't do it
I think most people have an understandably visceral and very emotional response to this because it involves children. That is a very good point VP made about some of the pedophiles being abused themselves. Doesn't excuse it at all but it does explain it (however much you can really "explain" something like that) to a certain extent. Doesn't mean it should be destigmatized.
PhilsFan
Blue Crack Addict
I am familiar with American history in the 19th century.
I've no idea what your point is, though.
Jive Turkey
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PhilsFan said:
Oh, its that life was better then and people drank liquid rainbows and ate gum drops and swam in magical rivers of chocolate and rode unicorns to work and skipped, hand in hand with strangers just cuz and everyone lived in tree houses and grownups built snowmen and people would sing in the streets and and cars ran on love and pets could talk if you'd only listen hard enough and every sunrise was more beautiful than the last and no one murdered each other
the iron horse
Rock n' Roll Doggie
the iron horse said:
And that's why we solve violence with violence, kids.
the iron horse
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
do you know what life on the frontier was like?
the Civil War Draft riots?
the Civil War itself?
the iron horse said:
You appear to be suggesting that capital punishment (violence) is necessary because the world is more violent today. If that's not what you're suggesting, please clarify.
PhilsFan
Blue Crack Addict
1. No, we don't.
2. Why does that mean we need capital punishment?
3. Have you compared the murder rate in the United States to the murder rate in other countries?
LemonMelon
More 5G Than Man
"Minor attracted?" Hahaha sounds like something from the NAMBLA episode of South Park. Probably not the best route if you want to give your cause legitimacy.
Like Melon said, this article is not worth getting worked up over because legitimate channels, the sort that actually have influence, wouldn't touch this with a ten-foot pole. Bear in mind, not all societies have the same view of pedophilia that we do, but I would hope that our advances in psychological analysis would prevent us from ever destigmatizing it. Clearly, it is objectively harmful and impossible to sympathize with. To me, the fact that someone would argue pedophilia is worse than mass homicide shows less that we need to pity pedophiles and more that Fox News is performing their obligation to spread hysteria extremely well.
I don't agree with capital punishment (I don't believe man should play God, least of all the sort that typically supports capital punishment), and I certainly don't in this instance because it would be letting them off easy. From what I've observed, VP's example of a self-loathing pedophile is fairly commonly seen, and I can't imagine a much worse penalty than throwing them in prison to think about what the fuck they did, especially since child molesters are probably #1 on most prisoners' respective hit lists.
Do I pity those with improper urges that sincerely do not want to act on them? Of course. I want them to get well. Destigmatizing those urges has greater consequences, however.
Somehow, Iron Horse's detour into the prevalence of violence in American society has managed to brighten up this extremely dire discussion.
Like Melon said, this article is not worth getting worked up over because legitimate channels, the sort that actually have influence, wouldn't touch this with a ten-foot pole. Bear in mind, not all societies have the same view of pedophilia that we do, but I would hope that our advances in psychological analysis would prevent us from ever destigmatizing it. Clearly, it is objectively harmful and impossible to sympathize with. To me, the fact that someone would argue pedophilia is worse than mass homicide shows less that we need to pity pedophiles and more that Fox News is performing their obligation to spread hysteria extremely well.
I don't agree with capital punishment (I don't believe man should play God, least of all the sort that typically supports capital punishment), and I certainly don't in this instance because it would be letting them off easy. From what I've observed, VP's example of a self-loathing pedophile is fairly commonly seen, and I can't imagine a much worse penalty than throwing them in prison to think about what the fuck they did, especially since child molesters are probably #1 on most prisoners' respective hit lists.
Do I pity those with improper urges that sincerely do not want to act on them? Of course. I want them to get well. Destigmatizing those urges has greater consequences, however.
Somehow, Iron Horse's detour into the prevalence of violence in American society has managed to brighten up this extremely dire discussion.
Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
this is a good point. many of them are killed or beaten severely in prison.
the most extreme example would be Jeffrey Dahmer, but it's quite common.
other people who get killed in jail are former cops, actually.
Jive Turkey
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Irvine511 said:
the guy who killed Dahmer didn't even know who he was. He just wanted to kill a white person.
I suppose that's beside the point though
it only seems like we do because now we can see everything on television. heck, to just talk about the stuff we learn about in history, what about the days of the wild west? organised crime during prohibition? are you telling me people back then didn't shoot each other but just ran from city to city hugging people?
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