Men must speak up on abortion debate

anitram · 02-24-2011, 10:48 AM

Very thoughtful article published in Salon (and written by a man). Well worth reading all the way through.

Why men need to speak up about abortion - Abortion - Salon.com

Quote:

I've quietly watched the debate around reproductive rights and women's health for most of my adult life and, frankly, most of it seems very foreign to me. It is spoken about in such simplistic ways. I don't understand how people can throw around the word "murder" and talk about taking lives. By the same token, I don't understand how some people can be so unconflicted about being pro-choice. Having experienced the second guessing, the what ifs, the sense of failure and the guilt, I don't find anything simple or unconflicted about it.

But mostly, I don't understand how these issues are still simply referred to as "women's issues." The destinies of men and women are intertwined by sex, and pregnancy, and childbirth. It is time for more men to sack up and start taking responsibility for their end of the conversation.

These "women's issues" have shaped my life: my birth, my adulthood and the children for which I am forever grateful. So yes, I support women's health programs and a woman's right to choose.

Even though I know that none of these choices are made easily or without hurt.

Popmartijn · 02-24-2011, 10:51 AM

Isn't a big part of this whole issue in the US that men are speaking up on the abortion debate, maybe much more so than women?

Moonlit_Angel · 02-25-2011, 05:31 AM

Indeed, and too often we're hearing from the ones who seem to want to restrict this stuff, failing to understand or sympathize with what women, the ones who actually have to experience the pregnancy or the ending of it and all the things that go with those circumstances, go through. I must admit I tend to get a bit squicky when men start talking about bodily issues that I will have to go through which they will never experience firsthand. And I think many women feel that way, and that alone makes a proper male/female discussion on this subject difficult and awkward.

However, it would be nice for men who do pay attention to the complexities of the issue to get involved. But they should perhaps speak more to the male population at large first. They should press the importance of men staying committed to their wives and girlfriends instead of bailing the moment the woman finds out she's pregnant, the importance of men being respectful to women and not pressuring/forcing them into intimate situations, to be more responsible in sexual matters. I think the more often men get that message, and show the women in their lives that they get the message, the easier it will be for women to not feel as alone in these situations. They'll have people to turn to, they'll have support and a sense that the men understand at least some of what's going on, and that might help them when it comes to making such difficult decisions about whether or not to keep a pregnancy going.

And everyone, male and female, should definitely continue to call idiots out for crap like this:

http://newsfeed.time.com/2011/02/24/...newsfeed-daily

Angela

Popmartijn · 02-25-2011, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moonlit_Angel

And everyone, male and female, should definitely continue to call idiots out for crap like this:

Anti-Abortion Billboard in New York City Causes Uproar Over Gender and Race - TIME NewsFeed

If the ones behind that billboard are idiots, then what about this?
Death Penalty for Miscarriages?

Yes, men are speaking up on the abortion debate...

Irvine511 · 02-25-2011, 10:52 AM

considering the biggest abortion provider in the world is a woman's very own womb, certainly "human involvement," maybe this idea has merit.

corianderstem · 02-25-2011, 11:07 AM

Yeah, that's just appalling on many levels.

On the plus side, from what I've read, it sounds like this guy has introduced a bunch of batshit bills that never had/have a chance of passing.

On the minus side, how do assholes like this get elected?

anitram · 02-25-2011, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corianderstem

On the minus side, how do assholes like this get elected?

Tells you something about his constituents.

corianderstem · 02-25-2011, 12:16 PM

Yep. One of those situations where both the question and the answer are depressing.

**Diemen** · 02-25-2011, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Popmartijn

If the ones behind that billboard are idiots, then what about this?
Death Penalty for Miscarriages?

You know, as vehemently as I disagree with the position, I can understand where someone might come from in arguing that abortion is murder and should be criminalized. What I can't wrap my head around is the sheer ignorance and/or overhwelming stupidity that would lead someone to (presumably) conclude that a miscarriage is the result of a conscious decision made by the pregnant woman, and therefore must be criminalized. I know several people who've had miscarriages, and each of them were devastated by it. Had there been some choice, they no doubt would've chosen to have a healthy baby.

I'd love to see this asshole stand in front of any of them and attempt to explain why they're criminals. It seriously blows my mind that people like this 1) exist, and 2) have been elected to positions of power. At some point the greater public should've realized that "hey, this guy is either too embarassingly, arrogantly ignorant or too stupid (or both) to be trusted with any political power."

Oops, didn't see your comments, cori.

Liesje · 02-25-2011, 01:06 PM

I'm not even going to give this crap a moment's though, I think I've hit my migraine quota for the week already, thanks.

yolland · 02-25-2011, 02:34 PM

The idea behind that portion of Franklin's bill is that any woman who has a miscarriage would have to undergo an examination/investigation to make sure she didn't deliberately induce it herself (in which case, death penalty).

He's run unopposed since his first race, which probably has something to do with why he keeps getting re-elected (though his district is a fairly prosperous and diverse suburb of Atlanta, which I do find somewhat surprising).

MrsSpringsteen · 02-26-2011, 10:26 AM

He's 100% correct-they're not "women's issues"

Hey at least Kanye West is speaking up

Kanye West took to Twitter to speak his mind about the hot button issue of abortion, and while not saying whether or not he thinks it should be legal, the rapper certainly took issue with some people who undergo the procedure.

"an abortion can cost a ballin' nigga up to 50gs maybe a 100. Gold diggin' bitches be getting pregnant on purpose. #STRAPUP my niggas!" he recommended to his followers.

Just to be clear, though, Kanye hasn't had the problem himself.

"It ain't happen to me but I know people" he clarified

corianderstem · 02-26-2011, 10:38 AM

I would say he's griping about so-called "gold diggers" and that the cost is not for some sort of luxury abortion, but for hush money.

Honestly, I'm struggling to see how that's about abortion and not just another silly tweet from Kanye.

mama cass · 02-26-2011, 12:02 PM

Kanye West's tweet is just all kinds of vile, i'm sorry... i'm with Lily Allen on this one!

Irvine511 · 02-26-2011, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corianderstem

I would say he's griping about so-called "gold diggers" and that the cost is not for some sort of luxury abortion, but for hush money.

i think that's probably what he was talking about.

still, Kanye: not helpful.

the iron horse · 02-26-2011, 07:55 PM

I've noticed that everybody that is for abortion has already been born.

~Ronald Reagan

The_Pac_Mule · 02-26-2011, 08:19 PM

Quote:

I've noticed that everybody that is for abortion has already been born.

~Ronald Reagan

Too be fair, so has everyone who is against it.

I'm very pro-life, but I hate to see the more simplistic arguments against abortion get torn apart on this board. I know from experience...

Dalton · 03-01-2011, 12:46 PM

Abortion remains the only social issue on which I fall on the conservative side of the ledger.

Moonlit_Angel · 03-01-2011, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Pac_Mule

Too be fair, so has everyone who is against it.

I'm very pro-life, but I hate to see the more simplistic arguments against abortion get torn apart on this board. I know from experience...

Thank you.

Also, I'd like to point out that most people on the pro-choice side are NOT "for abortion". That's another gross misconception that I REALLY wish would stop.

Angela

Jive Turkey · 03-01-2011, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irvine511

still, Kanye: not helpful.

I dunno. If some mouth breather reads that and wears a condom instead of getting a girl pregnant, it's not such a bad thing

02-24-2011, 10:51 AM	#2
Popmartijn Blue Crack Supplier Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Netherlands Posts: 32,853 Local Time: 08:34 PM	Isn't a big part of this whole issue in the US that men are speaking up on the abortion debate, maybe much more so than women? __________________

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02-25-2011, 05:31 AM	#3
Moonlit_Angel Blue Crack Addict Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: In a dimension known as the Twilight Zone...do de doo doo, do de doo doo... Posts: 20,774 Local Time: 01:34 PM	Indeed, and too often we're hearing from the ones who seem to want to restrict this stuff, failing to understand or sympathize with what women, the ones who actually have to experience the pregnancy or the ending of it and all the things that go with those circumstances, go through. I must admit I tend to get a bit squicky when men start talking about bodily issues that I will have to go through which they will never experience firsthand. And I think many women feel that way, and that alone makes a proper male/female discussion on this subject difficult and awkward. However, it would be nice for men who do pay attention to the complexities of the issue to get involved. But they should perhaps speak more to the male population at large first. They should press the importance of men staying committed to their wives and girlfriends instead of bailing the moment the woman finds out she's pregnant, the importance of men being respectful to women and not pressuring/forcing them into intimate situations, to be more responsible in sexual matters. I think the more often men get that message, and show the women in their lives that they get the message, the easier it will be for women to not feel as alone in these situations. They'll have people to turn to, they'll have support and a sense that the men understand at least some of what's going on, and that might help them when it comes to making such difficult decisions about whether or not to keep a pregnancy going. And everyone, male and female, should definitely continue to call idiots out for crap like this: http://newsfeed.time.com/2011/02/24/...newsfeed-daily Angela

02-25-2011, 10:52 AM	#5
Irvine511 Blue Crack Supplier Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the West Coast Posts: 34,383 Local Time: 02:34 PM	considering the biggest abortion provider in the world is a woman's very own womb, certainly "human involvement," maybe this idea has merit.

02-25-2011, 11:07 AM	#6
corianderstem Blue Crack Distributor Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Seattle Posts: 64,498 Local Time: 11:34 AM	Yeah, that's just appalling on many levels. On the plus side, from what I've read, it sounds like this guy has introduced a bunch of batshit bills that never had/have a chance of passing. On the minus side, how do assholes like this get elected?

02-25-2011, 12:16 PM	#8
corianderstem Blue Crack Distributor Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Seattle Posts: 64,498 Local Time: 11:34 AM	Yep. One of those situations where both the question and the answer are depressing.

02-25-2011, 01:06 PM	#10
Liesje Blue Crack Addict Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: In the dog house Posts: 19,563 Local Time: 02:34 PM	I'm not even going to give this crap a moment's though, I think I've hit my migraine quota for the week already, thanks.

02-25-2011, 02:34 PM	#11
yolland Forum Moderator Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 7,471 Local Time: 07:34 PM	The idea behind that portion of Franklin's bill is that any woman who has a miscarriage would have to undergo an examination/investigation to make sure she didn't deliberately induce it herself (in which case, death penalty). He's run unopposed since his first race, which probably has something to do with why he keeps getting re-elected (though his district is a fairly prosperous and diverse suburb of Atlanta, which I do find somewhat surprising).

02-26-2011, 10:26 AM	#12
MrsSpringsteen Blue Crack Addict Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 28,804 Local Time: 02:34 PM	He's 100% correct-they're not "women's issues" Hey at least Kanye West is speaking up Kanye West took to Twitter to speak his mind about the hot button issue of abortion, and while not saying whether or not he thinks it should be legal, the rapper certainly took issue with some people who undergo the procedure. "an abortion can cost a ballin' nigga up to 50gs maybe a 100. Gold diggin' bitches be getting pregnant on purpose. #STRAPUP my niggas!" he recommended to his followers. Just to be clear, though, Kanye hasn't had the problem himself. "It ain't happen to me but I know people" he clarified

02-26-2011, 10:38 AM	#13
corianderstem Blue Crack Distributor Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Seattle Posts: 64,498 Local Time: 11:34 AM	I would say he's griping about so-called "gold diggers" and that the cost is not for some sort of luxury abortion, but for hush money. Honestly, I'm struggling to see how that's about abortion and not just another silly tweet from Kanye.

02-26-2011, 12:02 PM	#14
mama cass Rock n' Roll Doggie VIP PASS Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 6,293 Local Time: 07:34 PM	Kanye West's tweet is just all kinds of vile, i'm sorry... i'm with Lily Allen on this one!

02-26-2011, 07:55 PM	#16
the iron horse Rock n' Roll Doggie Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: in a glass of CheerWine Posts: 3,266 Local Time: 02:34 PM	I've noticed that everybody that is for abortion has already been born. ~Ronald Reagan

03-01-2011, 12:46 PM	#18
Dalton Blue Crack Addict Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Little hand says it's time to rock and roll. Posts: 15,154 Local Time: 02:34 PM	Abortion remains the only social issue on which I fall on the conservative side of the ledger.