Mass Shooting at Connecticut Elementary School

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Eighties said:
You apparently haven't done any research on gorilla warfare
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Black-Gorilla_Warfare.jpg
 
Eighties said:
Do people even look in history books anymore ?!?! It's not an insane concept that governments turn bad and the people rebel for their freedom. The kids in newtone didn't die by my hands, they died by someone with a mental problem and stolen weapons. And I really don't give a shit about your rainbows, everyone holding hands , and the government is my lover fantasy world.
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The kids don't matter Irvine here really do they? As long as eighties could have his weapons for when Obama and his minions to take over the country or even more likely when the zombie apocolypse comes.
 
YBORCITYOBL said:
The kids don't matter Irvine here really do they? As long as eighties could have his weapons for when Obama and his minions to take over the country or even more likely when the zombie apocolypse comes.
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Come on, now. You're painting this as far more extreme an idea than it really is. Although, I expect that's actually your goal. You argue against who MSNBC and Chris Matthews tell you the other side is, and when they don't fit this stereotype, you twist words and ideas until they do.
 
Caleb8844 said:
Come on, now. You're painting this as far more extreme an idea than it really is. Although, I expect that's actually your goal. You argue against who MSNBC and Chris Matthews tell you the other side is, and when they don't fit this stereotype, you twist words and ideas until they do.
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WRONG!!!!

I'm a NRA member and I own and keep weapons in both of my homes. They are handguns - just enough to protect myself and my property secure.

I don't watch PMSNBC and I don't certainly watch FOX News, as I've grown older I am getting more on the conservative side but hate the radicals on both sides. What I would like is to have a serious debate on how to keep our kids safe and feel safe going to school. I'm assuming you're prolly a lot younger than myself and am gonna come off as being old and antiquated but when I was a child this wasn't even in the realm of things happening. Our kids are our most important resources and unfortunately the new reality doesn't seem to fit.
 
... Oh wait I didn't get my shots in at you - let me guess you live in your parents basement surrounded by all of your automatic weapons, which is somehow prolly a way to compensate for something maybe missing or shortcomings.. not sure. You listen to Rush, Hannity and O'rielly and while you arw a U2 fan, you have to somehow make that coelesce being such a huge fan of Ted Nugent :rockon:
 
YBORCITYOBL said:
WRONG!!!!

I'm a NRA member and I own and keep weapons in both of my homes. They are handguns - just enough to protect myself and my property secure.

I don't watch PMSNBC and I don't certainly watch FOX News, as I've grown older I am getting more on the conservative side but hate the radicals on both sides. What I would like is to have a serious debate on how to keep our kids safe and feel safe going to school. I'm assuming you're prolly a lot younger than myself and am gonna come off as being old and antiquated but when I was a child this wasn't even in the realm of things happening. Our kids are our most important resources and unfortunately the new reality doesn't seem to fit.
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Perhaps I was wrong, although, when you take a post about defending yourself from the possibility of a tyrannical government one day, and extrapolate it to the poster not caring about children and believing that Obama will take over the country, or believing in a zombie apocalypse.... that's not the serious debate you claim to want. That's demagoguery

YBORCITYOBL said:
... Oh wait I didn't get my shots in at you - let me guess you live in your parents basement surrounded by all of your automatic weapons, which is somehow prolly a way to compensate for something maybe missing or shortcomings.. not sure. You listen to Rush, Hannity and O'rielly and while you arw a U2 fan, you have to somehow make that coelesce being such a huge fan of Ted Nugent :rockon:
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Ah, yes, here's that serious debate you were wanting. Yep, you nailed me, man; good job :applaud:
 
Even if stockpiling assault rifles in the 21st century to protect against the rise of a tyrannical government was a valid argument, the 2nd Amendment calls for a "well regulated" militia.

It seems to me that most gun supporters are focusing primarily on the constitutionality of the "right to bear arms" instead of the "well regulated" part.

It is just too easy for people to obtain guns in the U.S. And while it's likely that tragedies will continue to occur, it doesn't mean we shouldn't implement some stricter rules to make guns harder to get.
 
BoMac said:
Even if stockpiling assault rifles in the 21st century to protect against the rise of a tyrannical government was a valid argument, the 2nd Amendment calls for a "well regulated" militia.

It seems to me that most gun supporters are focusing primarily on the constitutionality of the "right to bear arms" instead of the "well regulated" part.

It is just too easy for people to obtain guns in the U.S. And while it's likely that tragedies will continue to occur, it doesn't mean we shouldn't implement some stricter rules to make guns harder to get.
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Finally some sort of agreement.
 
BoMac said:
Even if stockpiling assault rifles in the 21st century to protect against the rise of a tyrannical government was a valid argument, the 2nd Amendment calls for a "well regulated" militia.

It seems to me that most gun supporters are focusing primarily on the constitutionality of the "right to bear arms" instead of the "well regulated" part.

It is just too easy for people to obtain guns in the U.S. And while it's likely that tragedies will continue to occur, it doesn't mean we shouldn't implement some stricter rules to make guns harder to get.
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Most reasoned conservatives would be completely fine with stricter rules on getting guns. I know I would be. As I said a few times in this debate, extensive background checks on those purchasing fire arms is something I would certainly support.

But it seems like that's not enough for most on the left, or for most people here.
 
Alright, folks. Let's everyone take a deep breath, check that urge to insult the opposing side, and try and get back to a level-headed, civil discussion here.
 
Caleb8844 said:
We're getting dreadfully off topic here. Bottom line: revolutions have occurred across the globe. They're obviously possible..even with a shortage of carrier pigeons. I don't think there's any need to sit down and discuss the actual minutia of it.
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as long as you are ok with this remote but, yes, potentially a remotely possible possibility as justification for the radically higher rates of homicide in the US than anywhere else in the Western world.

just say you're ok with it. at least admit that -- i wish gun owners/supporters would just say, "sure it's a tragedy when children are gunned down, but i really like my guns, so i guess that's a trade off i'm willing to make."
 
Irvine511 said:
as long as you are ok with this remote but, yes, potentially a remotely possible possibility as justification for the radically higher rates of homicide in the US than anywhere else in the Western world.

just say you're ok with it. at least admit that -- i wish gun owners/supporters would just say, "sure it's a tragedy when children are gunned down, but i really like my guns, so i guess that's a trade off i'm willing to make."
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That's not what I'm saying at all.

I'm saying that, from 1994-2004 (the entire period the assault weapons ban was active), the number of violent crimes was between 1.3-1.9 million. In 2011, it was 1.2 million.

From 1994-2004, the total number of murders was between 15,500-23,330. In 2011, it was 14,612.

From 1994-2004, the total number of assaults was between 847,000-1.1 million. In 2011, it was 751,131.

Violent crime over the years has declined at a very steady rate, with or without an assault weapons ban. If I thought a ban would actually do anything besides restrict freedom, I'd be all for it. However, statistics say it won't.

As an aside, lets not forget when columbine, the most famous of these type of incidents, occurred: 1999, right in the middle of the assault weapons ban.
 
Caleb8844 said:
That's not what I'm saying at all.

I'm saying that, from 1994-2004 (the entire period the assault weapons ban was active), the number of violent crimes was between 1.3-1.9 million. In 2011, it was 1.2 million.

From 1994-2004, the total number of murders was between 15,500-23,330. In 2011, it was 14,612.

From 1994-2004, the total number of assaults was between 847,000-1.1 million. In 2011, it was 751,131.

Violent crime over the years has declined at a very steady rate, with or without an assault weapons ban. If I thought a ban would actually do anything besides restrict freedom, I'd be all for it. However, statistics say it won't.

As an aside, lets not forget when columbine, the most famous of these type of incidents, occurred: 1999, right in the middle of the assault weapons ban.
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there are many, many, many reasons for the drop in crime since the early 1990s above and beyond the assault gun ban. and the statistics you cite don't do what you think that they do.

how is freedom for you contingent upon owning an assault weapon?
 
We've hashed this out several times in this thread.

And saying brushing out my points by saying "the statistics you cite don't do what you think they do" isn't a rebuttal; it's slightly offensive condescension.

The numbers say that violence is decreasing at a constant rate, regardless of assault weapons bans.
 
Caleb8844 said:
We've hashed this out several times in this thread.

And saying brushing out my points by saying "the statistics you cite don't do what you think they do" isn't a rebuttal; it's slightly offensive condescension.

The numbers say that violence is decreasing at a constant rate, regardless of assault weapons bans.
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you're assuming that i support a ban on assault weapons as a way of reducing crime.

i don't.

i support a ban on assault weapons because they make rare mass shootings even worse, and there's no reason why untrained citizens should have access to weapons made for warfare.
 
I find concealed weapons as upsetting as assault rifles, to be honest. If you require a weapon to defend your property, why does it need to be a concealed?
 
LemonMelon said:
I find concealed weapons as upsetting as assault rifles, to be honest. If you require a weapon to defend your property, why does it need to be a concealed?
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It's a tactical advantage. element of surprise, stuff of that sort. Also shouldn't worry too much about people with those sorts of permits. They have to go through proper courses to receive that permit.
 
LemonMelon said:
I find concealed weapons as upsetting as assault rifles, to be honest. If you require a weapon to defend your property, why does it need to be a concealed?
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I just did my homework and it comes to find out in some states pepper spray and other none leather weapons need that permit to be concealed apparently
 
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