Mass Shooting at Connecticut Elementary School

[cobl04]

(the first tweet was unhelpful and inflammatory, but still.)

[digitize]

People who pretend to be Ayn Rand characters on Twitter should be taken as un-seriously as possible.

[The Sad Punk]

How many more, America?

[Pearl]

Originally Posted by LemonMelon

Sandy Hook mass murderer Adam Lanza, 20, 'deeply disturbed kid' - NY Daily News

So let me get this straight. His mom was aware that he was mentally ill but couldn't be fucked to lock up her glock? Are you kidding me? Buy a gun cabinet and a key ring.

I guess some parents can be in denial that their kids can be so ill.

The thing that I'm concerned about while reading this article is that people are going to start to think anyone who is quiet and keeps to themselves is a definite psycho. That really is unfair because some people are quiet by nature; not everyone is an extrovert. And if we're saying we should all look for the warning signs in people, we shouldn't stigmatize quiet people.

[iron yuppie]

I really don't mean to trivialize mental illness, which, as many of you have pointed out, is a serious, debilitating problem and one of the many issues in need of attention here. My concern, though, is that every time there is a mass shooting like this, the attention quickly shifts away from the guns and to something else that is often made to suggest that guns are not the core problem. For me, guns are absolutely the fundamental culprit here. I think as a nation we need to stop deflecting blame from the deepening, obsessive gun culture in this country. No matter how disturbed this individual may have been, the death toll simply would not have reached the level it did without simple and unimpeded access to guns. The whole "determined people will commit a crime one way or another" argument simply won't fly anymore.

[corianderstem]

I think it's human nature to wonder "why." What drives someone to do something like this? Yes, guns made it easier for him to do it and take out a lot of people with him. But guns didn't make him do it.

And I'm not saying our country doesn't have a giant issue with guns. It pisses me off to no end that you can't even bring up gun control without it being "political" instead of "common fucking sense."

And it pisses me off even more that we live in a country where gun control is a right and health care is a privilege. Thanks to the last handful of years, you can't even discuss health care without it being "political" instead of "common fucking sense."

I think the conversations come out of a place of frustration, because the talk first of course (as it should) turn toward guns. But people just want to know "why." Some people ask why out of despair, because they just don't understand. Others want to know why so we can see what can be done to prevent it in the future (including aspects of gun control).

But yeah. We have a problem with guns.

[MrsSpringsteen]

Originally Posted by Irvine511

This is mental illness in a country where it's easier to access firearms than it is to get health care

I think that is a very important point. Disclaimer-I know NOTHING about exactly what happened in this situation, but as a general point and seeing the neighborhood they lived in and the house they lived in..I can speculate that it was a fairly wealthy family. So in general they have better access to health care, as far as being able to afford it. I grew up in a marginally well off town and live in one (nothing like this town seems to be, not on that level). And I can say for sure that the old adage still applies. That in general people in those places are far more concerned with what the neighbors think, they will think I'm a failure as a parent, etc. The list goes on and on. It's keep up appearances at all costs sometimes, tragically. Does that excuse it at all? Absolutely not. I have seen it on a personal level. When you combine that with the still existing stigma about mental illness, it equals a recipe for disaster. If your kid had a physical ailment you would have no reason to not get them treatment (unless you can't pay and even then you can try to find an alternative way) and no reason for embarrassment. Mental illness should be thought of in the same way, but it isn't. Again, I don't know what that mother did or did not do and I wouldn't judge her unless I did. These are just general thoughts. He also could have been getting treatment and this still happened. Treatment is no guarantee. Who knows if he was on any medications, any of that.

Who knows if she had these guns for protection from her own son. In that case why so many? I have no idea. Maybe she did keep them locked up and he got the key somehow.

The whole thing is just so painful, not ashamed to admit that I had a cry about it myself.

[BoMac]

In a South Carolina newspaper, here is everything that's wrong with America in a two-page spread:

http://twitter.com/ChrisJRailey/stat...947392/photo/1

[Jeannieco]

Originally Posted by BoMac

In a South Carolina newspaper, here is everything that's wrong with America in a two-page spread:

Twitter / ChrisJRailey: Paper in SC runs gun ad next ...

Wow, more insanity! It's saying... " Holy shit...HURRY up folks, get your guns before the big bad government takes them away." Did you see the gun sales chart in the last few years and how it's sky rocketed? Nothing like FEAR to make people buy more killing machines. And the cycle continues. Fear breads more fear, violence more violence. You don't need an AK 47 to kill a deer.
This country is whacked. Cori is right... common sense becomes political and sanity is chastised as un-American. Now that IS SICK. I am so tired of this.... Bob Costas is my hero, he's got more balls than any politician for saying what he did. And today IS the day to talk about gun control. Oh but wait...there's that common sense thing again, you know back ground checks and stricter waiting periods. My bad, how dare we turn this in to a political issue, she said with sarcasm.

[deep]

I recently heard this stat from what I believe to be a reliable source

number of Starbucks in the USA and the entire world is less than number of gun stores in the USA.

[MrsSpringsteen]

From Roger Ebert's web site and his 2003 review of the movie Elephant. I've never seen the movie, but apparently that story he tells about the media is making the rounds of the internet.

Just like CNN keeps saying they won't use this latest guy's name, but they keep doing it. Really no need to do it at this point, the horse is way out of the barn. And frankly you just look like a fraud for saying it.

Elephant :: rogerebert.com :: Reviews

Let me tell you a story. The day after Columbine, I was interviewed for the Tom Brokaw news program. The reporter had been assigned a theory and was seeking sound bites to support it. "Wouldn't you say," she asked, "that killings like this are influenced by violent movies?" No, I said, I wouldn't say that. "But what about 'Basketball Diaries'?" she asked. "Doesn't that have a scene of a boy walking into a school with a machine gun?" The obscure 1995 Leonardo Di Caprio movie did indeed have a brief fantasy scene of that nature, I said, but the movie failed at the box office (it grossed only $2.5 million), and it's unlikely the Columbine killers saw it.

The reporter looked disappointed, so I offered her my theory. "Events like this," I said, "if they are influenced by anything, are influenced by news programs like your own. When an unbalanced kid walks into a school and starts shooting, it becomes a major media event. Cable news drops ordinary programming and goes around the clock with it. The story is assigned a logo and a theme song; these two kids were packaged as the Trench Coat Mafia. The message is clear to other disturbed kids around the country: If I shoot up my school, I can be famous. The TV will talk about nothing else but me. Experts will try to figure out what I was thinking. The kids and teachers at school will see they shouldn't have messed with me. I'll go out in a blaze of glory."

In short, I said, events like Columbine are influenced far less by violent movies than by CNN, the NBC Nightly News and all the other news media, who glorify the killers in the guise of "explaining" them. I commended the policy at the Sun-Times, where our editor said the paper would no longer feature school killings on Page 1. The reporter thanked me and turned off the camera. Of course the interview was never used. They found plenty of talking heads to condemn violent movies, and everybody was happy.

[nathan1977]

Film people blame TV people.
TV people blame parents.
Parents blame the film and TV people.
And the cycle continues.

[BEAL]

How about just a start, we fix the gun show loop hole. Make it a baby step and show that the big bad gov or liberals aren't going to take the guns away.

What I'm finding on Facebook and twitter is that vocal gun owners are incredibly selfish. Any sort of inconvenience to their right trumps the right of the innocent victims or future victims right to live. "Why do I have to be punished with more rules when I'm one of the good ones"

As soon as you bring up gun laws their primal instinct is we will take them away. We have to show that we as a country and government want to make society safer with guns.

Sad to even write that last sentence as I'm in favor of banning all of them. But I know that's just too much to ask for. So compromise and make it as strict of a process to own a gun

[nathan1977]

Apparently the guy tried to buy guns from a local sporting goods store and was denied. The mother apparently taught her son to shoot. So the laws (such as they are) worked.

What I just posted on Facebook: "Dear gun owners -- if your child is demonstrating signs of mental illness, maybe DON'T TEACH THEM HOW TO SHOOT."

[Pearl]

As always, out of tragedy comes stories of heroism. These stories are moving:

She then discovered that her classroom door would not lock. After blocking the door from the inside with a filing cabinet, Jacob and the rest of the library staff guided the children in a group-crawl to a closet in the back.
"The kids cozied up, and we waited," Jacob said, adding that the children were told it was a drill. "We settled them down with paper and crayons."
"When the police finally came, we were afraid to open the door," she said of the hour-long ordeal. The staff only did when police slipped a badge under the door.

A parent said his 6-year-old son was in class when the gunman burst in and shot the teacher.
"That's when my son grabbed a bunch of his friends and ran out the door," Robert Licata said. "He was very brave. He waited for his friends."

Lives saved by teachers, custodian and even children in Connecticut school shooting - U.S. News

The names of those killed have been released. I'm not ready to read it or even see the photos of them, especially the children. It's just too hard to even think about.

[Jeannieco]

Originally Posted by deep

I recently heard this stat from what I believe to be a reliable source

number of Starbucks in the USA and the entire world is less than number of gun stores in the USA.

Isn't it true that most guns in USA are purchased at gun shows?

Not that this is how most guns are obtained, but I will never forget the scene in Bowling for Columbine (everyone should see this movie) when MM goes in to a bank in some little town USA and opens an account. Guess what the free gift was nope not a toaster.... a freaking gun!!!

[solemole]

You know, of all this talk about "mental illness", I haven't read one mention about Asperger syndrome, a high-functioning form of autism, characterized by "characterized by significant difficulties in social interaction, alongside restricted and repetitive patterns of behavior and interests", while its linguistic and cognitive development are preserved. Social behavior is described as awkward at best, and a lack of empathy is indicated. At least, this is what Wikipedia says.

The New York Times and NBC News have mentioned the shooter is said to have Asperger syndrome.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/15/ny...ss-killer.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/16/ny...-generous.html

Conn. town mourns as police look for answers - Local News - Clarksburg, WV | NBC News

Asperger syndrome is usually diagnosed at 30 months of age.

Can people differentiate autism from "mental illness"? Because if this incident is connected with the shooter's Asperger syndrome, then all the "mental illness" arguments are moot.

That being said, I'd like to add this article link: http://www.poynter.org/latest-news/m...ental-illness/

[MrsSpringsteen]

Yes it came out yesterday that he may have had Aspergers. Unfortunately I heard on the radio today what he did to those kids. Not going to repeat it, wouldn't and can't. Can't handle it.

I'm no expert but there must have been way more than Aspergers going on there. Contributing factor to much bigger issues-perhaps.

[cobl04]

Originally Posted by MrsSpringsteen

I'm no expert but there must have been way more than Aspergers going on there. Contributing factor to much bigger issues-perhaps.

Surely. Every person I know with Asperger's is actually quite level-headed. (One of them posted a lengthy status about this tragedy expressing deep sorrow and indeed empathy.) It's very manageable. And isn't it a more mild form of autism..?

[Pearl]

Originally Posted by cobl04

Surely. Every person I know with Asperger's is actually quite level-headed. (One of them posted a lengthy status about this tragedy expressing deep sorrow and indeed empathy.) It's very manageable. And isn't it a more mild form of autism..?

It is a mild form of autism. I knew someone with Asperger's. While he didn't show any signs of being a danger to society, he was socially inept and it made others uncomfortable. From I understand, he never received proper treatment for his condition because it wasn't understood well for many years.

Lanza must've had other problems besides Asperger's. Maybe that combined with his mental illness caused him to have no empathy for his victims.