Mass Shooting at Connecticut Elementary School

[Caleb8844]

Originally Posted by BVS

Which ones don't? I grew up around guns and know each and everyone of these modifications.

I've gone through this definition point by point several times, every time I do the NRA types flee from the discussion so I'm not going to waste words this time. Why don't you tell me why you would need any of these qualities for hunting or self defense?

I'm certainly no NRA type. I don't have a huge vested interest in how this turns out, honestly. I bring up the definition, because none of those features, it seems to me, would really affect the lethality of the gun in a mass murdering situation. Removing a pistol grip is going to lower death counts? "If only that killer's gun didn't have that bayonet holder!!" ?

It's clear to me that the assault weapons ban is simply a stepping stone to a full semi-automatic weapons ban. I'd simply like people to be honest and say that this is the end goal, and not that banning foldable stocks is the answer.

[BVS]

Originally Posted by Caleb8844

I'm certainly no NRA type. I don't have a huge vested interest in how this turns out, honestly. I bring up the definition, because none of those features, it seems to me, would really affect the lethality of the gun in a mass murdering situation. Removing a pistol grip is going to lower death counts? "If only that killer's gun didn't have that bayonet holder!!" ?

It's clear to me that the assault weapons ban is simply a stepping stone to a full semi-automatic weapons ban. I'd simply like people to be honest and say that this is the end goal, and not that banning foldable stocks is the answer.

Personally I see no reason to ban all semi-auto weapons.

But since you don't seem to understand the reason behind the definition let me ask you this, in hunting or self-defense can you explain who would need:

a 30 round clip?
a reason to conceal a rifle? Hence a folding stock.
a reason to conceal the flame put off by fire? I don't think the deer of robber are going to be effected.
a pistol grip on a rifle? There's a reason it's called a PISTOL grip. Rifles were not designed this way, the only reason for it, is rapid fire.


So, can you think of any legitimate reasons? Before you start seeing that it's "clear" the reasons you may want to understand the definition.

[Caleb8844]

Originally Posted by BVS

Personally I see no reason to ban all semi-auto weapons.

But since you don't seem to understand the reason behind the definition let me ask you this, in hunting or self-defense can you explain who would need:

a 30 round clip?
a reason to conceal a rifle? Hence a folding stock.
a reason to conceal the flame put off by fire? I don't think the deer of robber are going to be effected.
a pistol grip on a rifle? There's a reason it's called a PISTOL grip. Rifles were not designed this way, the only reason for it, is rapid fire.

So, can you think of any legitimate reasons? Before you start seeing that it's "clear" the reasons you may want to understand the definition.

I'm with you on the high cap mags to an extent.

As for your other questions, here is what a rudimentary google search turned up:

Folding stocks: according to legal gun owners, these make guns far more easily stored and transported. If concealing is one's main goal, a semi-automatic pistol (which could hold the same amount of ammo) would be a better choice.

Flash suppressor: this does NOT totally conceal the flash. It will not hide your position from others very effectively. Instead, its use is more so shielding the user from temporary blindness while shooting in the dark. Seems like a useful tool for hunting.

Pistol grips: helps with recoil, and comfort.


However, the weight of proof in these type of debates should fall on the party wanting to change the status quo. Here, that would be people in favor of the ban.

I'd like to know how you assume that this assault weapons ban will be successful, when the last assault weapons ban in this country is widely viewed as a failure to curb gun violence.

[BVS]

Originally Posted by Caleb8844

Folding stocks: according to legal gun owners, these make guns far more easily stored and transported. If concealing is one's main goal, a semi-automatic pistol (which could hold the same amount of ammo) would be a better choice.

But a semi handgun and a semi rifle are two completely different guns when it comes to range, hence the war reference. If I wanted to pick off multiple targets in a quick time I would set myself up on a rooftop in a downtown. I would use a rifle, not a handgun. No one that I know hunts with a folding stock, and no one I know uses a folding stock for their go to self defense weapon. Folding stocks were designed specifically for snipers, that was the reason they were invented.

Originally Posted by Caleb8844

Flash suppressor: this does NOT totally conceal the flash. It will not hide your position from others very effectively. Instead, its use is more so shielding the user from temporary blindness while shooting in the dark. Seems like a useful tool for hunting.

It's illegal to hunt in the dark in most parts of the U.S., at least any animal you would use a rifle for, and if you need a flask suppressor to hunt for coyote then you need to be a better hunter.

Originally Posted by Caleb8844

Pistol grips: helps with recoil, and comfort.

Pistol grips is a gray area, I've met one hunter in all my life that preferred a pistol grip, and that was because he was a shit shot. Pistol grips were introduced for two reasons, and remember the definition says "2 or more" of these modifications. Pistol grips are often coupled with a method of a quick release clip, the other purpose is for using a rifle in a non-rifle position, which is definitely a wartime method, not a hunting method.

Originally Posted by Caleb8844

However, the weight of proof in these type of debates should fall on the party wanting to change the status quo. Here, that would be people in favor of the ban.

I'd like to know how you assume that this assault weapons ban will be successful, when the last assault weapons ban in this country is widely viewed as a failure to curb gun violence.

How was the last assault weapons ban viewed as a failure?

Here's the thing: any weapons ban will take a long while to really take any effect. The current model of ban that they are seeking I think will reduce "passion" crimes. But a ban like this will eventually curb the types of weapons on the black market. I'm so sick and tired of pro-guners using this as a reason. The black market is comprised mostly of legally manufactured guns redistributed from legal US manufacturers.

[YBORCITY]

Originally Posted by Caleb8844

Assault Weapon: "Any semiautomatic rifle with a detachable magazine and at least two of the following five items: a folding or telescopic stock; a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon; a bayonet mount; a flash suppressor or threaded barrel (a barrel that can accommodate a flash suppressor); or a grenade launcher."

Other than a grenade launcher, which of those qualities qualifies an "assault weapon" as a weapon of war? Or is banning semi-automatic rifles in general the end goal people here desire?

Do you own an assault weapon?

If you do what do you use it for?

[Jive Turkey]

Originally Posted by BVS

But a semi handgun and a semi rifle are two completely different guns when it comes to range, hence the war reference. If I wanted to pick off multiple targets in a quick time I would set myself up on a rooftop in a downtown. I would use a rifle, not a handgun.

Just going to isolate this here to make it easier for the authorities when they come looking for it.


But in all seriousness, are semi automatic handguns legal there? If you want to talk about a weapon that has no other use but to shoot people, there's one right there

[BVS]

Originally Posted by Jive Turkey

Just going to isolate this here to make it easier for the authorities when they come looking for it.


But in all seriousness, are semi automatic handguns legal there? If you want to talk about a weapon that has no other use but to shoot people, there's one right there

I was waiting for someone to say that...

But yes, the majority of the US's handguns are semi-automatic.

i believe handguns have a legitimate use for home security, but I'm not the biggest fan of most state's right to conceal laws.

[Jive Turkey]

Oh, I guess they would all be semi automatic. I'm not really a gun guy (pretty good at Call of Duty though... that's kinda the same thing, right?). I know a few friends that have their handgun licenses here and the restrictions are super strict. You're not even allowed to use it in self defense, no matter what (in your home, doesn't matter), as far as I know

[BVS]

Originally Posted by Jive Turkey

Oh, I guess they would all be semi automatic. I'm not really a gun guy (pretty good at Call of Duty though... that's kinda the same thing, right?). I know a few friends that have their handgun licenses here and the restrictions are super strict. You're not even allowed to use it in self defense, no matter what (in your home, doesn't matter), as far as I know

Technically, a revolver isn't a semi-automatic.

[Jive Turkey]

Is that just because of the mechanics though? I assume you don't have to cock the hammer every time on most

[BVS]

Originally Posted by Jive Turkey

Is that just because of the mechanics though? I assume you don't have to cock the hammer every time on most

Exactly. Even though on most revolvers you don't HAVE to cock the hammer, they still aren't classified as semi-autos.

[Eighties]

We have the right to own fire arms of all sorts for multiple reasons.

One: self-defense. I would like a semi-automatic rifle/pistol with its designed magazine in case I miss, or there are multiple intruders.
Militaristic features ? Give me a break. The gun was made by the military for the military; anything on it could earn this label. In some places, police do not have a good response time, and if you have a family I think you would like to have EVERY advantage you could have to protect yourself and your loved ones.

It's not the weapons, it's our society. Violence is a more common thing with the media giving it a "normal" feeling. Also the destruction of families has put people under more stress and problems than ever.

How to fix the problem of people stealing or misusing a fire arm is surprising. It's not to create laws, but to talk to your neighbors, family, and friends. Know how everyone is doing and be involved. Also i think implementing background checks and making it harder to own a firearm are fine things to do, but don't outlaw them.

[Caleb8844]

Originally Posted by BVS

But a semi handgun and a semi rifle are two completely different guns when it comes to range, hence the war reference. .

The Virginia Tech massacre was the most deadly shooting of its kind. The shooter used two semi-automatic pistols.

Originally Posted by BVS

It's illegal to hunt in the dark in most parts of the U.S., at least any animal you would use a rifle for, and if you need a flask suppressor to hunt for coyote then you need to be a better hunter.

Is it illegal to defend yourself in the dark? If your house is broken into, and you're defending your family in the dark, it seems helpful to avoid being blinded by the your gun flash

Originally Posted by BVS

How was the last assault weapons ban viewed as a failure?

It is widely held opinion that the '94 assault weapons ban did nearly nothing to curb gun violence; hence, it was not renewed in 2004.

[Jive Turkey]

Originally Posted by Eighties

Violence is a more common thing

no it's not


Welcome to the forum

[Caleb8844]

Video games, music, movies --- it's blatantly obvious that these mediums are, by and large, much more violent than they were 20 years ago.

[GirlsAloudFan]

The Sandy Hook elementary children's chorus will be singing "America The Beautiful" at the Super Bowl on Sunday.

[Eighties]

Originally Posted by Jive Turkey

no it's not


Welcome to the forum

lol thanks, and I mean the way it's betrayed in movies and video games. Seeing violence is more graphic and common then ever. Yet bad words in songs are cut out >.>

[Jive Turkey]

Originally Posted by Caleb8844

Video games, music, movies --- it's blatantly obvious that these mediums are, by and large, much more violent than they were 20 years ago.

But it doesn't translate to more violent crime, so who cares?

[Jive Turkey]

Originally Posted by Eighties

Seeing violence is more graphic and common then ever. Yet bad words in songs are cut out >.>

Well, I would agree to this point. It's ridiculous. You an add sexuality to that list too

[Caleb8844]

The results of this study revealed that early childhood exposure to TV violence predicted aggressive behavior for both males and females in adulthood. Additionally, identification with same sex aggressive TV characters, as well as participants’ ratings of perceived realism of TV violence, also predicted adult aggression in both males and females. Furthermore, while a positive relationship was found between early aggression and subsequent TV violence viewing, the effect was not significant. These findings suggest that, while aggressive children may choose to watch more violent TV programming, it is more plausible that early childhood exposure to TV violence stimulates increases in aggression later in adulthood.

Early Exposure to TV Violence Predicts Aggression in Adulthood