Mass Shooting at Connecticut Elementary School

[BoMac]

Mass shooting in rural Pennsylvania at the same time as that farce of an NRA news conference.

4 dead, including the gunman, and three state troopers injured.

Ironic. And sad.

[Pearl]

I just read the NRA suggested a database for all Americans who are mentally ill. That truly upsets me.

First off, that is a violation of privacy and unfair to label mentally ill people as would-be mass murderers. Also, what kind of mental illnesses are they talking about? They can't have someone with basic depression put into the database. Plus, by having that database you will further stigmatize mental illness and those people won't get the help they'd need.

[PennyLanePHINS]

NRA could care less about individual gun owners, they are just there to help the gun manufacturers.

Hey, if they want to put police in schools and such, that's fine with me if they will pay for it. Which they won't. Yet, they'd probably also want lower taxes for millionaires and probably less funding for useful things like medical science.

[BoMac]

Here is the transcript from that press conference:

http://home.nra.org/pdf/Transcript_PDF.pdf

[U2Fanatic4ever]

So there are 38 states that already have a 'active' mental illness database. I had no idea..

The NRA wants an ‘active’ mental illness database. Thirty-eight states have that now.

[MrsSpringsteen]

Another thing La Pierre said today

"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun."

Ghost of

[corianderstem]

I truly doubt the NRA could be more clueless.

You know which "good guys" had guns and were all killed anyway?

These guys:

Lakewood, Washington police officer shooting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[bono_212]

Ok, I'm only like two pages in but the best thing they could find to blame was signs?!

Also, are you fucking kidding me?

The truth is that our society is populated by an unknown number of
genuine monsters — people so deranged, so evil, so possessed by
voices and driven by demons that no sane person can possibly ever
comprehend them. They walk among us every day.

I don't know if I can finish reading this.

[MrsSpringsteen]

Huffington Post

Columbine High School Had Armed Guards During Massacre In 1999

WASHINGTON -- In a highly anticipated press conference on Friday, the National Rifle Association announced that after a week of reflection following the massacre at Sandy Hook Elementary School, it decided the way to prevent another such tragedy was to place more guns in schools.

"I call on Congress today to act immediately, to appropriate whatever is necessary to put armed police officers in every school -- and to do it now, to make sure that blanket of safety is in place when our children return to school in January," said the NRA's top lobbyist Wayne LaPierre in a speech at the Willard Hotel in Washington, D.C.

But having armed security on-site failed to prevent the deadliest mass murder at an American high school.

In 1999, Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold killed 15 people and wounded 23 more at Columbine High School. The destruction occurred despite the fact that there was an armed security officer at the school and another one nearby -- exactly what LaPierre argued on Friday was the answer to stopping "a bad guy with a gun."

Deputy Neil Gardner was a 15-year veteran of the Jefferson County, Colo., Sheriff’s Office assigned as the uniformed officer at Columbine. According to an account compiled by the police department, Gardner fired on Harris but was unsuccessful in stopping him:

Gardner, seeing Harris working with his gun, leaned over the top of the car and fired four shots. He was 60 yards from the gunman. Harris spun hard to the right and Gardner momentarily thought he had hit him. Seconds later, Harris began shooting again at the deputy.

After the exchange of gunfire, Harris ran back into the building. Gardner was able to get on the police radio and called for assistance from other Sheriff’s units. "Shots in the building. I need someone in the south lot with me."

The second officer was Deputy Paul Smoker, a motorcycle patrolman who was near the school writing a speeding ticket. When he heard a dispatch of a woman injured at the high school, he responded. He, too, fired at Harris but didn't stop him.

LaPierre said having armed security on the scene is necessary so someone is there to shoot back. "The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun," he said. "Would you rather have your 911 call bring a good guy with a gun from a mile away -- or a minute away?"

But in chaotic situations, it's often impossible to identify the "bad guy," as Smoker said in his account of Columbine: "There was an unknown inside a school. We didn't know who the 'bad guy' was but we soon realized the sophistication of their weapons. These were big bombs. Big guns. We didn’t have a clue who 'they' were."

"That's the point," said Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) at a press conference on Friday afternoon, denouncing LaPierre's solution. "There were two armed law enforcement officers at that campus, and you see what happened. Fifteen dead ... 23 wounded."

New Jersey Chris Christie (R) also said on Friday that he doesn't believe having armed guards will make schools safer or encourage learning.

On Wednesday, violence prevention researchers and a large number of education, health and civic groups discouraged putting more guns in schools.

"Inclinations to intensify security in schools should be reconsidered," they wrote in a statement. "We cannot and should not turn our schools into fortresses. Effective prevention cannot wait until there is a gunman in a school parking lot. We need resources such as mental health supports and threat assessment teams in every school and community so that people can seek assistance when they recognize that someone is troubled and requires help."

Research also has shown that highly visible efforts to increase school safety -- such as armed guards -- make children feel less safe at school, undermining their ability to learn.

[PhilsFan]

The lead is flying in Toon Town. Ugly stuff.

[Moonlit_Angel]

Originally Posted by MrsSpringsteen

I think you're just confused and I don't mean to be critical or anything like that. But Noah Pozner was one of the child victims, the scammers are just using his name and the family name falsely. That's my understanding of it. The family has one legit web site of their own, I saw Noah's uncle on CNN but I can't remember the name of their site.

You're right, I was indeed mistaken-I read that and thought he was the one doing the scam. Thank you for clarifying that for me-that's what I get for reading things at 8 something in the morning! So my apologies for the mixup there, then.

Originally Posted by YBORCITYOBL

I was in Woodbury to be a part of the counter protest to the assholes from Wesboro Baptist Church who thankfully did not show up at Prinipal Hochsprung's wake/funeral.

These people are truly the scum of the earth.

Seriously, can't we send them into outer space or something? Why the hell do they still exist?

Also, the NRA is full of fucking idiots. This. Will. NOT. Solve. The. Problem. But thanks for playing, guys.

[bono_212]

Way to research, NRA

[PennyLanePHINS]

He is right...we have got to do something about all these criminals we have who shoot ice and lightning from their hands, then scream "Mortaaaaal Kombaaaaat!"

[solemole]

I caught up with some of my NYT reading online.

I don't know whether this opinion article was posted before, but I think it's worth noting:

NYT Op-Ed: Do We Have the Courage to Stop This? --Nicholas Kristoff

Originally Posted by Nicholas Kristoff

In the harrowing aftermath of the school shooting in Connecticut, one thought wells in my mind: Why can’t we regulate guns as seriously as we do cars?

The fundamental reason kids are dying in massacres like this one is not that we have lunatics or criminals — all countries have them — but that we suffer from a political failure to regulate guns.
....

[Galeongirl]

I just read the NRA"s solution to the whole disaster.



Yeah. More guns. THAT will totally solve this problem.



It's sad that they're actually serious. And influential.

[BoMac]

Even George H. W. Bush at one time thought LaPierre was crazy.

http://www.nytimes.com/1995/05/11/us...sociation.html

[U2girl]

Demand A Plan to End Gun Violence - YouTube

[cobl04]

Originally Posted by Galeongirl

I just read the NRA"s solution to the whole disaster.



Yeah. More guns. THAT will totally solve this problem.



It's sad that they're actually serious. And influential.

Me too. It is quite sad. And I thought conservatives were about saving money? When these school attacks happen at a rate of (whatever the rate is), wouldn't it cost an astronomical amount of money to train and "deploy" armed security at every school in the country? The defence to that is no amount of money is too much if it saves the lives of children, but it doesn't seem to make much fiscal sense to me. And if you're going to arm people at schools then you have to do it at movie theatres as well.

Then there's the part where he tries to twist people's consciences:

How have our nation's priorities gotten so far out of order? Think about it. We care about our money, so we protect our banks with armed guards. American airports, office buildings, power plants, courthouses — even sports stadiums — are all protected by armed security.

We care about the President, so we protect him with armed Secret Service agents. Members of Congress work in offices surrounded by armed Capitol Police officers.

Yet when it comes to the most beloved, innocent and vulnerable members of the American family — our children — we as a society leave them utterly defenseless, and the monsters and predators of this world know it and exploit it. That must change now!

As parents, we do everything we can to keep our children safe. It is now time for us to assume responsibility for their safety at school. The only way to stop a monster from killing our kids is to be personally involved and invested in a plan of absolute protection. The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. Would you rather have your 911 call bring a good guy with a gun from a mile away ... or a minute away?

Now, I can imagine the shocking headlines you'll print tomorrow morning: "More guns," you'll claim, "are the NRA's answer to everything!" Your implication will be that guns are evil and have no place in society, much less in our schools. But since when did the word "gun" automatically become a bad word?

A gun in the hands of a Secret Service agent protecting the President isn't a bad word. A gun in the hands of a soldier protecting the United States isn't a bad word. And when you hear the glass breaking in your living room at 3 a.m. and call 911, you won't be able to pray hard enough for a gun in the hands of a good guy to get there fast enough to protect you.

So why is the idea of a gun good when it's used to protect our President or our country or our police, but bad when it's used to protect our children in their schools?

They're our kids. They're our responsibility. And it's not just our duty to protect them — it's our right to protect them.

You know, five years ago, after the Virginia Tech tragedy, when I said we should put armed security in every school, the media called me crazy. But what if, when Adam Lanza started shooting his way into Sandy Hook Elementary School last Friday, he had been confronted by qualified, armed security?

Will you at least admit it's possible that 26 innocent lives might have been spared? Is that so abhorrent to you that you would rather continue to risk the alternative?

Then there's the "video games and movies and hip-hop videos are violent!" argument, followed by this perverted hidden message throughout that the media is somehow in on the attacks, or takes joy in them for self-serving reasons, or is somehow in cahoots with the Obama administration to make sure responsible gun owners get punished, or whatever. The whole thing makes me sick. It utterly misses the point, but it's doing the job for them I suppose.

As has been said here several times, the founding fathers didn't have assault rifles in mind when talking about the right to bear arms. I know this is not really my place, not being American, but to my knowledge we haven't had a single massacre since gun laws were heavily restricted following one in 1996. The last thing I'll say on the topic is this - even right-wing people in Australia, some extremely right-wing, think the NRA is deluded following its statements. That's got to tell you something.

[Irvine511]

Conservatives aren't about saving money. They are about shifting money to their special interests -- oil industry, defense industry, gun industry, and the wealthy. Concerns about debt are used to justify tax cuts on the wealthy so they become more likely to vote for the GOP.

Dems do this too. But not to the same degree. And at least their special interests (teachers, labor, the poor) seem slightly less evil.

[Moonlit_Angel]

Originally Posted by cobl04

And if you're going to arm people at schools then you have to do it at movie theatres as well.

Some people would be totally fine with that, actually. There are areas in this country where it's perfectly legal to bring firearms into public parks, or onto public transit...some places even let you bring them into bars ('cause who doesn't naturally want all drunk people to be armed to the hilt?).

I just wonder if they'll suggest kids learn to arm themselves, too. If the 6 year old girl in the Aurora theater, or those 20 kids at Sandy Hook, had all just been carrying guns, they could've helped stop this, and stuff!

(And just a reminder about how our logic works in the States: we see no problem with little kids being around guns, be it in their houses or when they get taken along by their parents to the hunting range. Yet 18 years olds can't drink a beer.)