Mass Shooting at Connecticut Elementary School

[trojanchick99]

Everyone, Megan McArdle has solved all of our problems. Of course that means rewiring our brains to ignore evolution's "Fight or Flight" response but still, it just requires a little bit of training.

I'd also like us to encourage people to gang rush shooters, rather than following their instincts to hide; if we drilled it into young people that the correct thing to do is for everyone to instantly run at the guy with the gun, these sorts of mass shootings would be less deadly, because even a guy with a very powerful weapon can be brought down by 8-12 unarmed bodies piling on him at once. Would it work? Would people do it? I have no idea; all I can say is that both these things would be more effective than banning rifles with pistol grips.

But I doubt we're going to tell people to gang rush mass shooters, because that would involve admitting that there is no mental health service or "reasonable gun control" which is going to prevent all of these attacks. Which is to say, admitting that we have no box big enough to completely contain evil.

She also at length goes on about how gun control and more services for mental health will not work.

There's Little We Can Do to Prevent Another Massacre - The Daily Beast

[Pearl]

Originally Posted by trojanchick99

She also at length goes on about how gun control and more services for mental health will not work.

There's Little We Can Do to Prevent Another Massacre - The Daily Beast

The problem may not totally go away, but it can be reduced.

As I mentioned earlier, when an entire class was gunned down in Scotland, the UK changed their gun laws. I haven't really heard of an epidemic of shooting sprees in that country since - anyone else have?

[corianderstem]

Originally Posted by Steved1998

The culture of this country varies from region to region and even within states. For an interesting look at this subject I'd suggest reading the 11 Nations of North America by Colin Woodard American Nations: A History of the Eleven Rival Regional Cultures of North America: Colin Woodard: 9780143122029: Amazon.com: Books

Sorry to hear, even if you didn't interact with her personally. Do you work for source4teachers? I think they do the subs in my district. I don't know if that was the company.

Well, yes, I realize the culture varies so greatly. I do live here too, you know. That book sounds like it might be interesting, though. Thanks for the rec.

Re work: oh, no. She was a substitute teacher but her part-time job (my company) has nothing to do with education.

[bono_212]

The inherent fault in the logic from most people seems to be in the "we can't stop them all so why bother" mentality, as others have pointed out.

Steve, I'm not sure how accurate this is, but from another poster on the board:

"From 1984-96 we had a over a dozen of these slayings in Australia, largely copycat killings prompted by media coverage in the US and at home. After one lone nut gunman killed 35 people in 1996, Prime Minister John Howard banned all semi-automatic rifles and pump-action shotguns, and introduced highly restrictive gun licensing laws. Hundreds of thousands of guns were bought back and destroyed.
Do you know how many mass shootings we have had since then? Not one. In addition, firearm homicides have dropped 59% with no corresponding increase in non-firearm murders.
People kill people, not guns? Rubbish. Guns give the mentally ill ruthlessly efficient killing power, and escalate domestic violence from assault to homicide. The US needs to act now, and the gun lobby needs to wake up to its culpability."

[Steved1998]

Originally Posted by trojanchick99

Everyone, Megan McArdle has solved all of our problems. Of course that means rewiring our brains to ignore evolution's "Fight or Flight" response but still, it just requires a little bit of training.

She also at length goes on about how gun control and more services for mental health will not work.

There's Little We Can Do to Prevent Another Massacre - The Daily Beast

That is a reasonable and well thought out argument. I look forward to her demonstrating it in a live fire situation.

[Steved1998]

Originally Posted by bono_212

The inherent fault in the logic from most people seems to be in the "we can't stop them all so why bother" mentality, as others have pointed out.

Steve, I'm not sure how accurate this is, but from another poster on the board:

"From 1984-96 we had a over a dozen of these slayings in Australia, largely copycat killings prompted by media coverage in the US and at home. After one lone nut gunman killed 35 people in 1996, Prime Minister John Howard banned all semi-automatic rifles and pump-action shotguns, and introduced highly restrictive gun licensing laws. Hundreds of thousands of guns were bought back and destroyed.
Do you know how many mass shootings we have had since then? Not one. In addition, firearm homicides have dropped 59% with no corresponding increase in non-firearm murders.
People kill people, not guns? Rubbish. Guns give the mentally ill ruthlessly efficient killing power, and escalate domestic violence from assault to homicide. The US needs to act now, and the gun lobby needs to wake up to its culpability."

Thanks for the info. This is definitely a model we should adopt. I haven't watched the national news, but this is something they should start using as an example.

[Pearl]

CNN has an article on how countries like Norway, Finland and Australia dealt with gun control after massacres:

How other countries deal with massacre nightmare - CNN.com

[BoMac]

But those restrictions worked in places where the right to bear arms is not considered a constitutional right or a symbol of freedom.

[Steved1998]

Today, Rick Perry said that teachers should carry guns to prevent another massacre. Lets turn the next one into a full blown shoot out. I wouldn't trust some of my colleagues with a butter knife let alone a gun.

I would get on bored administrators carrying stun guns or something to that effect. Or even a hall or wing "warden" carrying a stun gun or pepper spray.

[anitram]

Originally Posted by Steved1998

Today, Rick Perry said that teachers should carry guns to prevent another massacre. Lets turn the next one into a full blown shoot out. I wouldn't trust some of my colleagues with a butter knife let alone a gun.

When Virginia Tech happened, I was in law school. And the same suggestions were made back then - if only the professors had been armed, this wouldn't have happened.

I remember looking down at my commercial law professor, who, all joking aside, is the ultimate geek. I say that lovingly as he was a good professor and a wonderful man with whom I've stayed in touch over the years. But this guy was probably the clumsiest, most unathletic man you would come across. He was not in any kind of physical shape that would permit him to react quickly, run up the stairs (our lecture hall was a sloped one), or run anywhere for that matter. He also had half an inch thick glasses and probably worse vision than my grandmother. He stood at the lectern at the front of the lecture hall and the doors to get into the class were at the back. Do you honestly believe that I would want that man wielding a semi-automatic assault rifle in an effort to shoot an assailant standing in the back when 100+ of us were sandwiched between them? It's an absolutely absurd notion.

It's as if there is a segment of Americans who think that once they arm themselves to the teeth they're as good as a special ops marine. Truth be told, in a comparable situation, most of these guys would shit themselves long before they'd discharge a weapon.

[Irvine511]

i believe the security guard at Columbine was armed. that went well.

[BoMac]

Not sure what planet these people are from:

Newtown shooting: Gun advocacy group says teachers should be armed | World | News | National Post

I did find this part interesting:

For balance, it is worth noting that U.S. army psychologist Major Nidal Hasan opened fire in a military base in Fort Hood, Texas in 2009, and killed 13 people before he was stopped and he was surrounded by armed and trained soldiers.

Gun control advocates would note that trained soldiers and policeman often hit bystanders when engaging in a firefight while surrounded by civilians. One wonders how a teacher who goes to the gun range every other weekend would fare in similar situations

Of course, the very thought of this strikes fear in me:

Fringe Tea Party-group, Tea Party Nation, also had this to say: “Support the creation of local organizations to act as ‘neighborhood watch’ for schools. Had George Zimmerman been at the front door instead of some mechanical card reader those children would still be alive.”

[deep]

One aspect of this tragedy is that is seems the motivation was to kill
'special ed' children (and teachers). Some may say it is just a coincidence.

[deep]

Originally Posted by MrsSpringsteen

Normally I'd just ignore you. But Jesus, seriously?

Not even going to say what I really want to say. Maybe you should raise your doubts to the Newtown police, I'm sure that's their first concern right now. Maybe they should bring her in for an interrogation.

The only source I was able to find was one pastor with an anonymous story describing it as a 'miracle'. If I saw or heard the kid saying it, I would not question it.

But, this link suggest the girl in the dark sweater in the middle of row two, may be the one?

Sandy Hook First Grade Class — Photo Of Classroom Slain By Shooter Adam Lanza - Hollywood Life

[BVS]

Originally Posted by BoMac

Not sure what planet these people are from:

Newtown shooting: Gun advocacy group says teachers should be armed | World | News | National Post

I did find this part interesting:

Of course, the very thought of this strikes fear in me:

So much wrong with these people

[Steved1998]

Originally Posted by deep

One aspect of this tragedy is that is seems the motivation was to kill
'special ed' children (and teachers). Some may say it is just a coincidence.

What the fuck are you talking about?

[corianderstem]

BBC News - Newtown overwhelmed by media

But our footprint in tiny Sandy Hook is exceptionally heavy. And after a while, you have to wonder what more there is to say.

The children have gone. Their poor parents are grieving. The police are saying very little.

Some reporting comes close to repeatedly ripping a sticking plaster off. Watch or listen or read too much, and it feels as if we are wallowing in other people's pain.

Go home, the man in the lobby said, go home. And very soon, I will.

[deep]

I don't know if this is true, but this suggest that all those arguing that he should have been made to get help,
now we will have some saying if she did not do just that, nobody would be dead

The gunman who slaughtered 20 children and six adults at a Connecticut elementary school may have snapped because his mother was planning to commit him to a psychiatric facility, according to a lifelong resident of the area who was familiar with the killer’s family and several of the victims’ families.

Adam Lanza, 20, targeted Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown after killing his mother early Friday because he believed she loved the school “more than she loved him,” said Joshua Flashman, 25, who grew up not far from where the shooting took place. Flashman, a U.S. Marine, is the son of a pastor at an area church where many of the victims' families worship.

“From what I've been told, Adam was aware of her petitioning the court for conservatorship and (her) plans to have him committed," Flashman told FoxNews.com. "Adam was apparently very upset about this. He thought she just wanted to send him away. From what I understand, he was really, really angry. I think this could have been it, what set him off.”

A senior law enforcement official involved in the investigation confirmed that Lanza's anger at his mother over plans for “his future mental health treatment” is being looked at as a possible motive for the deadly shooting.

Read more: EXCLUSIVE: Fear of being committed may have caused Connecticut gunman to snap

[Irvine511]

Good thing she had all those guns handy.

[bono_212]

I still don't understand what connection any of them had to the school.